Gargamuni: My father, he also used to get swelling, but this was due to diabetes.
Prabhupāda: I have got diabetes also.
Gargamuni: He was getting swelling in his legs and hands. But he had to take this insulin, and this kept the swelling nil by taking insulin. Every morning he would give himself a shot. But he had no more swelling.
Hari-śauri: He'd just stick a needle in his arm every morning.
Prabhupāda: There are many gentlemen who take insulin twice, at least once.
Rāmeśvara: The diabetics. They have diabetes. Very common. We have a devotee who does that. This boy in New York whose parents have kidnapped him many times. He is actually... That's their charge against us, that "Oh, my son is diabetic, and you are not spending $25,000 on doctors. You are not taking care of him." That is their charge against us. Then Ādi-keśava Mahārāja said, "All right, if you want him to have such excellent medical treatment, you give us the money and we'll spend it on it." So then the parents say, "Just see! Blackmail." That is a big charge in the paper. It's called extortion. Ādi-keśava Mahārāja was indicted for kidnapping and for extortion.
Hari-śauri: He's that Ed Shapiro.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. The parents cheated again. They said, "Just see, blackmail."
Hari-śauri: That's how that charge came up.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They lie and say, "This president, he said, 'If you do not give us this money, we will let your son die.' "
Prabhupāda: In a different way.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Gargamuni: He didn't write it, did he?
Rāmeśvara: No, it was on the telephone. But he has been charged by a Grand Jury of attempted extortion.
Hari-śauri: They can never prove that. It's ridiculous.
Rāmeśvara: I have heard that now, this month, we have already been on the biggest television shows in America, big night shows. They have these shows that go two, three hours at a time, and everyone in America watches them. Forty million people watch them. So we've already been on those shows now. Our devotees have already been on those shows now because of this controversy. We're becoming more famous.
Prabhupāda: And they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Room Conversation
—
January 19, 1977, Bhuvaneśvara
Rāmeśvara: But they have never used it against us. But now they have started. One devotee, a girl from Berkeley temple who is a very big book distributor... Sometimes she could collect five, six hundred dollars in one day. She was just kidnapped—by order of the court. They have a psychologist who listens to the parents' description, and on the basis of that secondhand report the psychologist...
Prabhupāda: No, kidnapping, that is already law there. If one is minor or without the permission of the parent, with police force she or..., can be kidnapped.
Rāmeśvara: But this is not for minors. This is for adults.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh.
Rāmeśvara: This is a new thing, that the psychologist will write some report to the court that "Based on the information I have received, this person is not mentally competent. Therefore this person must be put under the guardianship of their parents even if they are an adult. Otherwise they will harm themselves." So in this way the psychologists...
Prabhupāda: But any psychologist will give report or anyone can...
Rāmeśvara: Anyone. You just pay him, and he'll give you a report. They are rascals. And then the court issues an order that "Now this person's freedom is taken away," and she's put under the charge of her family for thirty days. Then they come with the police, and they give the paper, and they take her away by force, and they fly her to one of these camps where they harass her for thirty days.
Gargamuni: Brainwash.
Rāmeśvara: Try to break their faith.
Gargamuni: Actually they are brainwashing.
Prabhupāda: So this can be done by law?
Rāmeśvara: They have some law, and they are misusing it for this purpose.
Prabhupāda: Then what to do?
Rāmeśvara: Well we have... I mentioned we have got these lawyers who want to start a nationwide organization to fight this law for us. So the head of this group is in San Francisco...
Prabhupāda: Now, the... Externally, it appears that anyone can be kidnapped simply by the certificate of the psychologist.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. That is the real point, that this is like Nazi Germany. This is insane. So because it is so anti-American, then many people who would not normally connect themselves with our movement are now coming forward to help us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. Otherwise the freedom is lost. Anyone can be kidnapped.
Rāmeśvara: That is what they are realizing, that this may not stop at just Hare Kṛṣṇa. They can kidnap anyone. That's our propaganda to get support.
Prabhupāda: Just like emergency.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Hari-śauri: In Russia they do that. When they don't like someone, they put him in a mental home.
Rāmeśvara: That was that whole article I brought from page one of L.A. Times, that how they have made this legal. And now they have got tax exemption. So now it's going to increase. For the next year it's going to increase, because they're going to get a lot of money from the families as tax write-offs.
Prabhupāda: Tax invention? What is that?
Rāmeśvara: They call themselves educational organizations. They are educating the public because they do speaking engagements at colleges and different places. So on the basis of that, they applied to the federal government, "Please, we are just an educational group. You must give us tax exemption." So they have been given that. Now people can donate money to them. Instead of paying taxes to the U.S. government, they can donate money to them in exchange for paying taxes. (laughs) So the fighting will get more...
Prabhupāda: Intense.
Rāmeśvara: This year, definitely. But that means more propaganda for us, more publicity.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (chuckling)
Rāmeśvara: And I look forward to it, because we'll smash them in each confrontation. They now realize that when they have a debate against us, they always lose. We have had maybe five or six confrontations. They now realize that when they have a debate against us, they always lose.
Replies
You just ask him, Robin. You do not yet know even the small part of the whole story. Its an introspective human story and a mystery spy novel woven around the religious crime of the millenium.
Its about equal? In India, nowadays they all try to sell you something, and in Canada, actually they pretty much leave devotees alone. But back in the day, our members regularly were put in the front lines by Srila Prabhupada, in a real war against maya's agents that continues unabated. Our Basu was too strong for them, they went down, he became a pure devotee. But they went on to attack Srila Prabhupada himself, and to this day, these vile criminals still occupy Srila Prabhupada's movement. We are continuing on despite these attacks, and hit back twice as hard in terms of propaganada /information wars.