Gaura Govinda Folks Reply 03/02/12
Posted by Editor in Devotional Community
Puranjana Dāsa [ACBSP] – US: The Gaura Govinda folks have been writing me to say that I am making severe offenses to Gaura Govinda swami in my youtube video where I discuss my meeting with him:
Below is my recent reply to their spokesman, who has said that the Sudarsana Chakra should decapitate me. That means — he is saying they are authorized to use violence on other vaishnavas
Puranjan Prabhu – Re: My question not answered for 30 years
With regard to the ATTACHMENT in my previous mail, it’s obvious you have deliberately avoided commenting on the REAL TATTVA concerning your gross blasphemy of a pure devotee mentiond therein.
[PADA: GGM's "Cooperating" with the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children is not found in any tattva or any shastra. As a matter of fact, even the cannibal witch doctors do not engage in that behavior, nor do they worship that deviation. Nor would they "cooperate" with that deviation, it is below their dignity. This deviation is never found in human society, it is only found in GGM's society.]
YOU ARE ONLY BRAGGING THAT YOU ARE KRSNA’S CHOSEN FAVOURITE DEVOTEE.
[PADA: Well we Prabhupadanugas now have thousands of people who worship Srila Prabhupada, so I am not bragging, but we are doing that and its a fact. And we are training them that GGM and his idea that we need to cooperate with the worship of deviants is bogus, and they are accepting.]
CAN’T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS KRSNA’S SUDARSAN CAKRA WHO WANTS TO
KILL YOU FOR YOUR ABOMINABLE OFFENCES, and you imagine that other people are trying to kill you …. HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET???
[PADA: OK let me get this straight, I am the one saying acharyas are not engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, I am saying the GBC is wrong to say that and GGM is wrong to cooperate with that deviation, and Krishna wants to kill me? That means you think you are authorized to have me killed, my point exactly.]
So Dear Prabhuji, in a nutshell you are saying you doubt the words of Jagadguru Srila Prabhupada who is the Spiritual Master of yourself and the victim of your blasphemous 30-tear-long attacks, HDG Srila Gour Govinda Swami, my most compassionate Gurudeva.
[PADA: No I am not doubting Srila Prabhupada. He said Ramesvara is the only intelligent devotee he has, ok so I should take sannyasa, quit sannyasa, and marry a New York lawyer? He said Jayatirtha is my tirtha, so I should take LSD and have illicit sex with the wives of others? He said all of us are pure devotees, so I should eat hamburgers like some of these "pure devotees"are doing now? You are saying that when Srila Prabhupada makes a statement of encouragement, I should accept that as an eternal fact? This makes no sense. Srila Prabhupada says we never compromise, so when a person tells me he has to work with deviation, he has lost his connection to Prabhupada.]
You not only doubt Prabhupada’s declaration that GGS is a pure devotee from birth, but you go to the extent of describing him as a lowest of sinners hand-in-glove with other debauchees.
[PADA: GGM described himself that way to me, he said he is cooperating, tolerating and working with the debauchees posing as Vishnupada. I told him some of his party's Vishnupada are homosexuals and he agreed they are, so you folks can cooperate with the worship of oral sex with taxi drivers posing as Vishnupada in the holy dham, that is your choice. Its not mine. That does not give you the right to orchestrate having me beaten and killed just because I do not want to worship illicit sex with taxi drivers in the holy dham? And GGM was voted in as guru when they recoronated illicit sex with taxi drivers in the holy dham. So you folks can get voted in along with oral sex with taxi driver's alleged Vishnupadas, why should I be threatened with death for disagreeing?]
As i said, you are a nitya-baddha, mleccha, yavana. How is it possible for such a debauchee as you to be able to understand the words, actions, and intentions of any nitya-siddha-suddha-bhakata- sadhu like GGS ot even Prabhupada.
[PADA: Prabhupada said anyone who cooperates with the worship of deviants is himself a deviant. He said that Gaudiya Matha folks who promoted Ananata Vasudeva are deviants, and so is Ananta Vasudeva. OF course this is called collective karma, you support deviants, you become a deviant.]
Give me an HONEST ANSWER, WITHOUT DISCREDITING SRILA PRABHUPAD’S WORDS ABOUT GGS.
[PADA: I am being honest, you imply that when Srila Prabhupada says Jayatirtha is Srila Prabhupada's tirtha, that means I have to follow Jayatirtha. This is foolish. We have to know that when a statement of encouragement is being made, it is not absolute. Srila Prabhupada said all of us are pure as well, so you want me to start to eat hamburgers?]
If you discredit your guru’s words as bogus, you are foolishly deluding yourself into proclaiming that Krsna is so favourable to you that he is personally protecting you, as you loudly claim. KRSNA DOES
NOT HAVE ANY MERCY ON ANYONE WHO SLANDERS PURE DEVOTEES LIKE GGS, AND
DISREGARDS WITH CONTEMPT ONE’S OWN SAD-GURU’S TRANSCENDENTAL WORDS.
[PADA: So now you are saying I should be killed, that means I am right, you folks wanted to see me die. You are promoting the GBC because they are assassins of us Prabhupadanugas, and you are their hand maidens.]
Don’t change the subject. Address the above specific points without misinterpreting my simple, direct poiunts. LET’S SEE HOW HONEST YOU ARE IN THIS MATTER.
Thank you.
yhs in the protection of my Gurudev’s integrity
gourgovindsevak senan / 02.03.2012
[PADA: I am being honest, Srila Prabhupada said so many things to so many devotees, they are pure, they are former associates of Lord Chaitanya, etc. -- to encourage them. But when they deviate, we have to discard them and move along. We cannot cooperate, tolerate and work with hamburgers eating, just because at one time we were told these people are all pure. In any case you have answered my question, you think you are authorized to have me killed, you are vaishnava hatya supporters. You want to see the blood of devotees on your boots, you want to see dead vaishnavas. You are blood thirsty and so are the GBC gurus, they all wanted me dead. And so do you. You are murderers in the dress of devotees, you answered me nicely. You want to cooperate with the murderers, because you are one of them. ys pd]
The next time one of these rabidly fanatic sycophants replies to you, you should ask them to justify the following MASSIVE flip flop contradiction that GGM said in his own words.
“One has to hear. It is not that, “All right, tapes are there, I’ll hear the recorded tapes.” Sabda-brahma will never descend. [...] You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.” (HH Gour Govinda Swami, ‘Q&A’, The Worship of Sri Guru, chapter 3)Devotee: Srila Prabhupada always emphasized that he was eternally present in his books, instructions, tapes, and letters. So when you say we should take association of a sadhu can we do that through Srila Prabhupada's books? Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him, and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Do you hear from Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you? Devotee: Through his books. Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinode Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books. This is not a new thing. This is our Vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami? You may say, "Oh I have read their books; I have their association." That won't help you. Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books. Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words. Gour Govinda Swami: Out of mercy, the sadhu will impart this tattva-jnana to you. This is the only process. Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you? This process is a living thing. It is always there, and it is always current. It is not that inquiry was done a certain way in the past and now things are done differently. No! It is an eternal process, pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.
———————————————————————————Suddenly, when it is convenient, he changes his tune, speaking on the day he opened access to Srila Prabhupada's new "bhajan kutir"
"So his bhajan kutir is there. We have kept it because that will always remind us of his staying there and working there, his dictaphone. You can also hear it from here, dictaphone. When all are asleep, he is saying on his dictaphone; at 2 a.ms at 2:30 a.m. you can hear. Still it is being heard, can you hear him? You have deaf ear, so you cannot hear it. Open your ear, hear it, that transcendental sound that will purify your whole body. It is always there, it is eternal always purifying."Similarly such Vaisnavas are always there. Though apparently my revered, beloved spiritual master, the spiritual master of the whole world Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupadji Maharaj has disappeared, but he actually has not disappeared, he is still present.Similarly, the lilas of His pure devotees are eternal. Though apparently it is not manifested, it is there; if you are fortunate you can see it. As I say, still Srila Prabhupada is speaking in his bhajan kutir. You may hear it, how he is speaking in his dictaphone at 2a.m., 2:30 a.m. . He has speaking and he is still speaking, and you can hear how he is present. I never feel his separation, I always feel his presence, how he is teaching me, how he is slapping me, how he is directing me, how he is instructing and guiding me, you understand?I can clearly recall, in 1977 when he was just leaving this place, he was asked when again he will come here and he said “I will come here when the temple will open“, and he has kept his word, he has come now.So today he is appearing in his bhajan kutir. His vigraha is non-different from him. So you must glorify him, beg his mercy to shower on us, thereby we can understand Krsna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead in tattva and perfect our lives."
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The fame and adoration gets to a person's head, and they are forced by Maha Maya to say whatever, whenever, in order to keep the illusion going and keep the footwashings regular.
This is why, among other reasons, that Srila Prabhupada didn't want his disciples telling newcomers that they were now their own exclusive disciples, that they were now their "acarya" and that WHATEVER they said was to be followed even if it contradicted old rules given by the founder, because as their New Acarya, they had the divine wisdom to make changes as they saw fit.
Since this order was abandoned, it was all too tempting to change the rules to arrange things in such a fashion to keep all the newcomers FOCUSED ON THEM, in order to get their daily fix of fame adoration and distinction. So now there are hundreds of schisms or sects within Iskcon, all making it up as they go along. Some of them are now even claiming that they have really been "ritviks" all along! Whatever they need to say in order to stay in power for another day.
So sad.
The same double standard applies to current Iskcon Gurus. They just say whatever will make them seem enlightened at the time to keep their followers enthralled, regardless if it shatters their position that Srila Prabhupada is dead and gone.
“There is more that comes out from this tape machine than just plastic tapes (shakes a tape). What really comes out of that tape recorder on these tapes is divya-jnana, or transcendental knowledge.”
(HH Indradyumna Swami ‘darshan’ – Text COM:1974636, 1999)
“Vani, the vibrational presence is the instructions we receive from the spiritual master [...] It can be on an audio or video recording. Or it can be written in a letter, book, or article. No matter in which way the instruction is given and received, it is fully active and potent.”
(HG Sankarshan Das Adhikari, Lecture, November 9th, 2007)
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Here is what Srila Prabhupada said about our need to have a living guru standing over our shoulder explaining what his purports really mean.
“So utilise whatever time you find to make a thorough study of my books. Then all your questions will be answered.” (Letter to Upendra, 7/1/76)“you should always read my books daily and all your questions will be answered” (Letter to Hugo Salemon, 22/11/74)“Every one of you must regularly read our books at least twice, in the morning and evening, and automatically all questions will be answered.” (Letter to Randhira, 24/01/70)“The potency of transcendental sound is never minimised because the vibrator is apparently absent.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam, 2.9.8, purport)“You should have a fire sacrifice and the second initiates shouldhear through the right ear the mantra on my recorded tape.”(Srila Prabhupada Letter, November 13th, 1975)“Paramahamsa: My question is, a pure devotee, when he comments on Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with the commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?Srila Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krsna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty?”(Morning Walk, Paris 11/6/74)
Have you heard anyone ,except for the likes of Srila Prabhupad etc,speak Krsna-Katha like Gour Govinda Swami!He was doing that from his childhood and people would come from all around to hear the CHILD devotee speak.And thats in ORISSA,where they have state holiday for gaura purnima!GGS’ whole life one can glorify.Your good self picked up something disturbing concerning his remaining in iskcon after Prabhupad disappeared.it might be an idea to consider it in the context of HIS WHOLE LIFE!do you think he couldnt have been a SECRET agent for Srila Prabhupad and Krsna, in “iskcon”.its possible ,right?Thank God! Krsna didint give the whole movement to the snakes after Prabhupad left.i mean dont you think its a little far fetched to consider that after all that effort prabhupad made while he was physically present,that as soon as he left were all up sh@# creek and all the deities he prana pratistha as well!!i.e.no more true sadhu sanga available for the devotees ,new people and even the deities.!ill leave it up to the kind reader to consider these few points i felt like writing.profuse apologies for any offense in my message.look forward to any replies.thanks from nitai das.
Pada is so foolish, he has been caught lying and exaggerating so much so that it stinks to heaven. Why don’t you do something useful,like make devotees or go after Robbernatha, the Obama/Reno/NWO lackey? But you have been revealed to be incorrect in regards Srila Gour Govinda due to your own internal philosophical deviations, fanaticisms, and can’t tolerate this smear on your reputation, or what is now left of it.
Just read the comments at Puranajan’s(PADA)avidya video; pages of Vaisnavas telling him he’s nuts. Now he simply keeps trying to defend his past mistakes, makes no sense, no logic to his statements, just blind vindictiveness. He is defeated over and over, and won’t acknowledge that. No use even talking to him, then.
Give it up, Pada. No one accepts your foolish attacks on Gour Govinda Swami anymore. You have done much good work, we know this, so don’t continue to spoil it with this farcical attack on someone you know little to nothing about, apparently!
Those Prabhupadanugas who are not opposed to every other pure devotee, who favor ritvik process of initiations, and who do not blaspheme Srila Gour Govinda Swami Thakura, are invited to visit us at puredevoteeseva.ning.com
ps Like every conman and liar, Pada, and Mark, have taken a cut from a much longer conversation of Gour Govinda Swami Maharajah Thakura 108 discussing tapes etc. The FACTS; GGS himself used tapes, accepted the initiations of his Godbrothers by tape, and spent all his time translating Srila Prabhupada’s books, so your criticisms are revealed as stupid envious constructed misleadings. He is against tapes, or reading Prabhupada’s books ?? Thats nuts, such a stretch as to be seen right through. Baloney.
Who do you really work for? Is your business actually to create dissent and destroy the Hare Krsna movement?
Similarly IRM; they have created no devotees, not one, and meanwhile have all kinds of money to send out destabilizing and accusatory false and misleading materials worldwide. Where do they get all the money? What is their real agenda? Is this a branch of the Great Sinister Movement Srila Prabhupada warned us of, and who murdered his body? Is PADA and IRM involved with this globalist agenda as compartmentalized dupes and lackeys? Robbernatha is their agent, son of Chicago mobster, rat, and current agent for the Obama CIA via Janet Reno et al. This is real, the movement is now run by the CIA agents.
Whereas Gour Govinda is renowned for utmost purity, making devotees, raising temples, glorious lectures and writing, and absolute loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, PADA has simply atatcked destroyed many innocent devotees. Otherwise, what? He is a polarizer, and his job is destablizing this movement, thus actually enabling the USA government agenda. They now own ISKCON, thats why they have had no trouble with it since they killed Prabhupada and manoeuvered their agents into positions of power and control.
Jayapataka Swami, GBC letterhead sent to all GBCs, Sept 1985, “We cannot rest until we have established a NEW WORLD Krsna conscious ORDER !”
Pada has acted, perhaps unknowingly, a dupe, to destabilize the real movement, the resistance to the takeover, further enabling the GBCists to grasp control in the confusions, and lock in heavy brainwash, monetary, legalistic, and popular cult control of the new devotees.
Tamohara said: “FACTS; GGS himself used tapes, accepted the initiations of his Godbrothers by tape, and spent all his time translating Srila Prabhupada’s books, so your criticisms are revealed as stupid envious constructed misleadings. He is against tapes, or reading Prabhupada’s books ?? Thats nuts, such a stretch as to be seen right through. Baloney.
Reply – If it is such baloney, perhaps you could enlighten the forum as to why GGS said what he said as quoted by Baladas in comment one?
Specifically
GGS: “One has to hear. It is not that, “All right, tapes are there, I’ll hear the recorded tapes.” Sabda-brahma will never descend. [...] You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.” (HH Gour Govinda Swami, ‘Q&A’, The Worship of Sri Guru, chapter 3)
Gour Govinda Swami: If Prabhupada says he is there, then you try to see him, associate with him, and listen from him. Do you see Prabhupada? Do you hear from Prabhupada? Is he speaking to you?
Gour Govinda Swami: Through his books, yes. All sadhus speak through their books. Jiva Goswami, Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami, Bhaktivinode Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, and Srila Prabhupada all say that they speak through books. This is not a new thing. This is our Vaisnava procedure. But you should see him. Can you see Bhaktivinode Thakur? Can you see Jiva Goswami? You may say, “Oh I have read their books; I have their association.” That won’t help you.
Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand what they have said merely by reading their books. Your consciousness is very low, so you cannot understand their words.
Gour Govinda Swami: Out of mercy, the sadhu will impart this tattva-jnana to you. This is the only process. Unless you get association with a living sadhu, what can you do? Will you put some question to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada will answer you?
http://youtu.be/QGe3A6Cn5aU
Watch and make your own judgements, no need to listen to the cheap comments from the fault finders.
Hare Krsna Tamohara prabhu,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.
I just finished watching all four parts of the video of Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj. Too bad Krsna takes away the pure devotees and leave the pretenders for those of us who are hoping to become devotees.
I hope all is going well.
May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada’s Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.
With love,
Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
— On Mon, 10/31/11,
http://youtu.be/QGe3A6Cn5aU
Watch and make your own judgements.
Dear Tamohara prabhu: Thanks for showing us the GGM video. Yes, GGM is showing his confusion here: 1) GGM says the GBC are conditioned souls with four defects (GGM also told me that the GBC are influenced by Kali Yuga). 2) The GBCs are voting in gurus (and he was voted in by them). 3) The GBC are the “higher executives” of the entire society (which means they are not only voting in acharyas but managing and administrating the gurus they vote in).
Of course “voting in gurus” is the first rattle out of the box of — “administrating the guru” right from the start. That means GGM is saying the people who have defects, and who are influenced by Kali, are voting in gurus — and managing and administrating these gurus? No, Krishna votes in His own gurus by giving HIS gurus His own personal shakti. Shaksad Hari tvena, not shaksad GBC committee tvena?
Where is it stated that the same persons whom GGM admits are subject to defects and Kali yuga — can be made the managers of the acharyas? And if the GBC are the managers of the acharyas, how exactly does this work? The acharyas are the sum totals of all the demigods; and the GBC are the “managers” of the sum total of the demigods, … when in fact … the GBC cannot “manage” a wet noodle? GGM makes no sense here at all?
The GBC (at the time GGM was voted in) was saying they were EMPOWERING the guru. Sorry, this is not done by the votes of a committee, especially one that is under the influence of Kali Yuga? The guru is empowered by Krishna and not by the committee of defective people?
GGM makes no sense? A body of people who have defects, who are influenced by Kali Yuga, how can they vote in gurus or administrate gurus? This sounds somewhat like the voting of the Pope in the Vatican, which is not our system? Where did GGM find this voting in of the acharya system in the first place? Its never been done.
This is like saying the hospital janitor should be made the brain surgeon and administrate all the surgeries, while the brain surgeon should be made the janitor. Notice, GGM is switching the roles here, he has the conditioned souls administrating the acharyas, rather than the acharyas administrating the conditioned souls. He has turned the whole Vedic system on its head. And this is why he wanted the GBC to reinstate Tamal in 1993 by their system of votes, he thinks the committee is managing and administrating the guru. Sorry, the guru is independent, he is managed by Krishna direct, he is not managed by a committee of persons influenced by Kali.
So this is an offense to the acharyas, to say they are being managed by a committee of defective people who are under the power of Kali Yuga. How can a person under the influence of Kali manage and steer the acharya? This is like putting a drunk with fifteen drunk driving arrests in the captain seat of a 747 going 700 mph, people will die, thats all, he is not able to take that post.
Apart from that, GGM and his folks always challenged me when I quoted that we all came from Krishna’s lila or sport, they think that they can challenge the acharya. Sorry, this means someone is not accepting the acarya when he challenges their statements. Srila Prabhupada says we have all seen Krishna face to face, sorry, the idea that we come from brahman is something he NEVER ACCEPTED. ys pd
Puranjana says: So this is an offense to the acharyas, to say they are being managed by a committee of defective people who are under the power of Kali Yuga. How can a person under the influence of Kali manage and steer the acharya?
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Vaisnava acaryas cannot be managed by commite. But let me put it from another perspective. If we look at Srila Prabhupada’s system of officiating acaryas, ritviks, (or initiators, or institutional gurus, as some like to call them), then it is clear that such officiating acaryas are to be managed by GBC commite, and be voted in as needed, or taken out of position if they misbehave. No need to put ISKCON gurus in a high position of mahabhagavatas, as they like to put themselves. Srila Prabhupada wanted them to be vatod into position, initiate and be removed when failing. So, in this regard, what GBC is doing, is correct. What is incorrect is gurus behaving as all in all, posing as uttama adhikaris. ISKCON gurus should accept that they are officiating acaryas, and GBC should manage their numbers.
Srila Prabhupada wanted them to be voted into position, initiate and be removed when failing, and replaced as needed. So they should be voted in, rubberstamped, initiate as officiating acaryas, and let disciples (granddisciples of Srila Prabhupada) to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. They need not be pure, need not be charismatic, need not be available to disciples – they just need to initiate as Srila Prabhupada’s representatives, and not impose themselves on disciples.
Prabhupdadajis did not appoint successor or give order for any of his disciple to be guru. First become pure devotee he said. If we accept guru position by vote then this is not correct siddhanta and we are number one rascal. Prabhupadaji did not give diksa guru position to any of his disciple so how come GGS think he gave him this position when no one else? How come did not give over ISKCON to GGS if he was only diksa guru of ISKCON? Prabhupada never made any of his disciples into guru who makes disciples so anyone saying this has no proof only in mind where mind is biggest rascal.
GGS accepted voted in guru position why? He wanted it. Why take position of voted in guru when your guru did not order?
Why so many want to be big guru? Why want to be diksa guru? Why not live humble life and preach and serve Prabhupadaji? First become pure devotee does not mean become initiating guru. It means become pure and go back home to Godhead.
GGS could do everything he did without taking disciples so why he want this so bad that he accepted voted in guru position? This is question very much needing answer.
Also one is pure disciple first then become pure Vaisnava no one said become pure disciple and then become guru and make disciple. We must become Vaisnava and Vaisnava does not mean take disciple.
Plus Prabhupadaji never preaching raga bhakti like GGS was doing. When we hear this style preaching from Prabhupadaji? I went many times to listen to GGS lecture and heard many times this raga bhakti from him that i did not hear from Prabhupadaji. If GGC was full disciple of Prabhupadaji why not give up past bad habit and preach like guru?
So first follow footprints of guru then deserve to be Vaisnava and being Vaisnava does not mean make disciples what is this need to make disciples? We are siksa line why bother with disciples disciples disciples?
There is subjective point of view and seeing the complete picture.
To assume that GGS was appointed by Prabhupada to be next acarya results in having to also accept legendary 11 as appointed by Prabhupada. Things get real complicated to divide out.
There is nothing in writing concerning GGS’ coronation by Prabhupada. Prabhupada nowhere mentions GGS to be appointed as full-fledged diksa-guru. It is all based on GGS’s statement, “Prabhupada told me in private”.
If there is a camp of GGS followers who figure GGS is a genuine initiating acarya, appointed by Prabhupada, then leave them in this understanding. After all, meanwhile it should be clear, modern Vaishnava is an unteachable fanatic. But how someone can fight like that on the basis of such poor evidence is beyond logic&reason.
Many devotees never met GGS, have zero clue what Prabhupada instructed GGS in private meeting. Why enforce upon others that GGS was appointed by Prabhupada? Obviously his premature passing also says that it was better for him to move on than starting a guru career? Krishna stopped his guru business right at the beginning.
Someone may ask why the GBC should be in charge of spiritual masters? This idea is coming from the Gaudiya Math.
Srila Prabhupada set up the GBC as the ultimate managing authority. One of Prabhupada’s godbrothers said no, this cannot be done. The gurus must be the ultimate authority. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta also wanted a GBC. But his big big sannyasis said no, I will be in charge, I will become a guru, I will sell the printing presses and fight in court with my Godbrothers.
Prabhupada told many of his disciples to become gurus. And Gour Govinda Maharaja said the reason he was told to do so was because he asked how he could build the Bhubaneshwar temple and Srila Prabhupada told him to accept disciples in order to help him do it. This was toward the end of Srila Prabhupada’s manifest pastimes.
If we take a section of one lecture of a devotee and use that quotation as “all in all” it might appear a devotee is saying one thing only. Gour Govinda Maharaja was advocating that we need a guru, even Srila Prabhupada says that in his Bhagavad-Gita as it is. If we read it, it does not say we only need to read Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita as it is and that is sufficient, it also says therein that one must seek out and serve that bonafide spiritual master.
One might claim that since there is no tape recording of Srila Prabhupada telling Gour Govinda Maharaja to become guru therefore we cannot accept what Prabhupada said, even though Prabhupada said you can accept whatever I say or write in my letters or my books. So why should this same devotee tell us what he says Gour Govinda Maharaja said and demand that we accept what he says as proof? Isn’t that a little bit contradictory?
Srila Prabhupada said we cannot understand where we came from or how we fell down from the spiritual world. One devotee might say that the GBC was wise to take a vote about whether we fell from Vrndavana or not but again that seems contradictory? Isn’t it like writing a book about the descriptions in the fifth canto of the Bhagavatam that Srila Prabhupada said no one can fully understand on this planet anyway, and then claiming to understand it one’s self?
More than one person in Iskcon has met or associated with Gour Govinda Maharaja in the past. But one devotee seems to think his opinion is right based on the fact that HE met with and spoke with Gour Govinda Maharaja, even though there is absolutely no tangible proof of that fact, not a picture, not a tape, not a letter, not a recording of any kind.
SB 1.2.33 Lecture, Vrndavana, 12 Nov 1972:
So you have to uncover. You have to discover. That discovering process is devotional service. The more you are engaged in devotional service, the more your senses become pure or uncovered. And when it is completely uncovered, without any designation, then you are capable to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is apprenticeship. Vaidhī-bhakti, that is apprenticeship. Real bhakti, parā-bhakti, that is rāgānugā-bhakti. This rāgānugā-bhakti, we have to come after surpassing the vaidhī-bhakti. In the material world, if we do not try to make further and further progress in devotional service, if we are simply sticking to the shastric regulation process and do not try to go beyond that… Shastric process also regulation, that is required. Without shastric process you cannot go to that platform. But if we stick to the shastric process only and do not try to improve ourself… The shastric process is kaniṣṭha-adhikāra, lowest stage of devotional service. [Emphasis Added]
arcāyām eva haraye
pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate
na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu
sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ
Generally, people come to this temple, they are very devoted to the Deity. They offer their respects, flowers and other things, make the regulative process, circumambulate. This is nice beginning, but one has to go above this. One has to know who is actually bhakta, who is ac… Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. One has to do good for others. That is madhyama-adhikārī. If I become satisfied only with these regulative principles for worshiping the Deity in the temple and following the regulative principle daily, but if I have no other idea, then sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Prākṛta means on the material platform. Such devotee can fall down at any moment, because he’s on the prākṛta stage. And prākṛta means this guṇamayī, prakṛti. It is very strong.
Dear Tamohara, I saw the GGM film as you asked us to, and commented on how GGM was very presenting his very confused views in the film. Please see comment 5. Yes, the quote you provided, that all of the disciples will take the legacy, proves that GGM had not been appointed either. No one had been appointed, and your quote proves that. ys pd
“Some years back, Gour Govinda Maharaja disciples came to collect from Bhima in Singapore, insisting that their guru had told them that he had received a letter from Srila Prabhupada himself to become the acharya.”
Since almost all Prabhupada letters are published please publish this important letter of Srila Prabhupada.
Hari Bol!Were meant to be PERSONalists.Tapes and books can save your life but so can the Prabhupadas in PERSON i.e. in ALL Their glory!ill keep these short and to the point as i am aware i may be dealing with some of my seniors here.All glories.Hari Bol!
Dear Tamohara, there is a structural defect in GGM’s idea that he is “working with” a GBC (as he said to me, and as he says in the film you provided). In 1978, the ISKCON leaders declared that the 11 now formed the “acharya board.” And that AS OF NOW the “acharya board” over-rides all the rest of the GBC. Therefore the GBC system was at that point, effectively dismantled.
GGM has never explained why he wants all of us to be “working with” an acharya board, never mind the whole acharya board idea is a concoction, it is never mentioned? He should have known that?
Simultaneously GGM said many of the leaders are in-filtered as disciples of Kali Yuga. How can he say he is working simultaneously with: (a) A defective group called the GBC; (b) A so-called Acharya Board which over-rides the GBC, and (c) Those who are in-filtered as disciples of Kali Yuga? How can any one person be all three of these things at once?
Why didn’t GGM say, we have to either say we have a GBC, or an acharya board, or admit we have Kali Yuga in-filtered? He combined all these elements together, and this is simply a mass of confusion. Jesus is also, the Devil? How come GGM did not sort all this out and explain this juxtaposing is offensive, and not factually possible? The GBC is one item, the bona fide acharya is another item, the disciples of Kali are yet another item, they are not one and the same item? He merges them all together. This is called mayavada.
GGM was merely making a mass of confusion by “working with” all three ideas at the same time. In 1978 the 11 said, only these 11 on the acharya board are the “ultimate authorities,” managers and leaders of the GBC. So that means they declared that their acharyas are the actual leaders and not the entire GBC body. That means the is no GBC at that point.
Of course that is correct technically, the acharyas would over-ride a committee of defective managers, except GGM has never provided us with any proof that the 11 had been either appointed as acharyas, or that they were qualified to be acharyas.
He simply went along that they are acharyas with no basis to do so, and at other times he said they are only a GBC, and at other times — they are disciples of Kali. How can the acharyas be disciples of Kali? GGM simply has no clear idea of things, he merges all these items together.
And this simultaneous — GBC / acharya board / disciples of Kali — process continues to the present day, there is a group of alleged acharyas, there is no actual managerial body. And sometimes their alleged acharyas are acting so degraded, proving they are in-filtered with Kali. As we all know, a body of acharyas is never subordinated to a managerial committee. There is no history in the entire Vedic literature where there is a body of acharyas who are subordinated to a defective committee? In any case, you forgot to answer any of these points which we mentioned in post no. 5 here. Please stick to the relevant issues here. ys pd
I watched the lecture where Gour Govinda maharaja said “Krishna wants this information to go underground.” He was referring to the origin of the jiva, but he could just as easily have felt everything is happening by the will of Krsna, just as Prabhupada said.
You ask how he can seem to agree with three different things. Did he say he did or did you say that? “One cannot understand the mind of a pure devotee.” Prabhupada said Gour Govinda Maharaja was born pure, and he was known as a child saint in his youth.
As far as the letter from Prabhupada, there was a letter, I have read elsewhere out in cyberspace, but that letter was not specific enough to satisfy the 11 when they asked for PROOF that Prabhupada said Gour Govinda Maharaja could become a guru. But it was all he had besides what was spoken by Srila Prabhupada to him when they spent one week together in Bhubaneshwar. But apparently it did satisfy Gour Govinda Maharaja as proof?
Finally you ask how Gour Govinda Maharaja could cooperate with his Godbrothers to spread the Krishna Consciousness Movement after Srila Prabhupada was gone? Some devotees, the ones still in Iskcon, take that order as their life and soul. Even though I may appear to be against things from time to time, my ultimate goal at all times is to cooperate with the GBC and spread Krishna Consciousness around the world. Since you say NOT to cooperate and work with your godbrothers, or even to tolerate them, what IS your goal? Sue the movement to punish them for not being perfect enough for you?
Dandabat obeisances to your form of “evil”, oh Evildas maharajah! Thank You, for telling me things i have not heard at all of GGS, that is wonderful! One can hardly drink just a drop of nectar, however, without desiring to taste more. Please come to puredevoteeseva.ning.com sometime soon, so that we might have your association. AGT Srila Prabhupada. Obeisances.
This is the misquote. The conversation is much longer than this, and all is clarified within. This is an out of context quote. Beside, i just defeated that. GGS used tapes, and spent all his times translating Srila Prabhupada’s books. So answer instead of the usual try to avoid the truth with the same old baloney.
Srila Prabhupada also said the same thing! He said, How can you understand Srila Bhaktisiddhanta? You should hear the explanation from me. Will you fault him for this? SP had no written authorization to be guru. Will you fault him for this? Your thinking is just repeating PADA brainwash. Did not GGS use tapes? Did he not read Prabhupada’s books and distribute them? Did he not accept all of us despite us being initiated by ritvik priests while SP was physcially elsewhere, and also we heard the gayatri by tape? He accepted. Then what in HELL’s name are you saying and trying to do??
I will have to dig deep to try to refind that complete conversation which i have on my own site, but which is deep in the stacks. I will be back, however.
Meanwhile answer my questions for a change!! Again, your old baloney is defeated, but simply you repeat repeat the same baloney long enough just to convince us of your apradhas, like a Coca-cola commercial. The product is corrupting and poisonous.
The issue is not GGS, who everyone of any experience can see and attests to as mahabhagavata, but who are you working for and what is your intent? I say you are CIA dupes!
PD: I actually met with Gaura Govinda maharaja (GGM) in person in Badger, and I told him I was promoting the idea that Srila Prabhupada is the acharya. He told me this is the bogus ritvik idea, you need a living person, and there is no living person in my preaching scheme. Wow! I had no idea I was dead already.
Sorry, the Prabhupadanugas are living and preaching, they are all alive. How did he get the idea the Prabhupadanugas are not living? Or that the acharyas are dead and gone and not living? This is really odd because GGM is now deceased and all of our preachers are not? So we have the living idea, GGM’s idea is not living.
Then I said to him, the GBC is making even homosexuals into Vishnupada acharyas, and this is bogus, and he said, yes Kali Yuga has entered the highest places of ISKCON.
So I said, good, lets work together to expose these people. And he said no, he cannot do so, he has to “cooperate, tolerate and work with the GBC.” OK, where were we told to work with — Kali Yuga? This is not clear to me at all.
Then his followers gave me GGM’s “Guru Tattva” book — which says gurus become demons. And so I said, “this booklet is exactly what the 1988 GBC paper said,” and then the followers said, that is because GGM wrote that paper for the GBC. He was helping them. Later in 1993 the GBC was going to vote to get rid of Tamal — for his gopi bava club, and GGM was the person who stood up at the meeting and said, we need to keep Tamal. So we all have to go, Tamal gets to stay? The good news is, I never beleived that all of us are not living, from what I can see, we are the living ones, the acharyas are the living ones, and GGM is not. His program here has vanished, nobody even talks about him here anymore. ys pd
GGS mahabhagavata? Yeah, I thot so while in ISKCON. Then later I came to know he was voted in. That’s right, a voted in mahabhagavata.
And why does a mahabhagavata have to support the homosexual & child abuse guru program?
TD “This is the misquote.”
GD: -So, you are saying that each of those 5 quotes taken from GGS’ book and reprinted by Baladas were “misquotes”? As in fabricated, falsely put together?
You claim these exact quotes are taken out of context. Talk about baloney. Each quote is self-evident, self-contained, and is completely understandable on its own to anyone with a high school grammar education.
TD “GGS used tapes, and spent all his times translating Srila Prabhupada’s books. So answer instead of the usual try to avoid the truth with the same old baloney.”
GD: – What you point out is exactly the reason why GGS appears so hypocritical. He preaches one thing one moment, while contradicting it with his own actions.
Yet because you are sentimentally attached you defend this. You claim that his doing differently than what he preaches is actually proof of his genuineness. That somehow this is a good thing. Up is down and black is white.
TD: “Srila Prabhupada also said the same thing! He said, How can you understand Srila Bhaktisiddhanta? You should hear the explanation from me. Will you fault him for this?”
GD: – Well, now you are revealed. Srila Prabhupada tells us to understand the teachings of past prominent acaryas on the list of 32 from him.
You consider that you need GGS to understand Srila Prabhupada’s plain english words in his books. You directly imply that GGS is the next prominent mahabhagavat acarya in the Gaudiya Sampradaya, #33, and Srila Prabhupada’s books have become moot to anyone who was not formally initiated by him before he disappeared, and needs someone else to explain the purport to them.
Such blind fanaticism then leads you to say the following.
TD “The issue is not GGS, who everyone of any experience can see and attests to as mahabhagavata.”
The arrogance! “Everyone” of “any” experience.
You poor chap.
1.Accept voting can’t make a conditioned soul mahabhagavata.
But can voting make a great devotee a fallen conditioned soul?
2.GGM did not support pedophiles.He criticized Tamal & co. very much as sinisters.much of his criticism was suppressed.
Thats why GBC constantly attacked GGM, made sure that he does
not give class in mayapur.
If GGM is supporter of GBC like Rabbinatha Swami, GBC would not have
persecuted GGM so seveerly.
Please note GGM left body on same day as GBC meeetings in mayapur arranged to prosecute him.
3.GGM did not have any heresies or criminal history.His whole life was spent in renunciation, he lived in mud hut always translating SP
books.He did not even eat if he did not complete his daily quota of translation.
4.Yes we need to expose bogus gurus but we simultaneously need to discriminate carefull and avoid vaishnava aparadha.
GGM had to stay in FISKCON against his weill as per order of his Guru SP.
we need to take into account history and character of person.
Vaishnava aparadha can be very dangerous.ofcourse this vaishnava aparadha is often used to their advantage by supporters of criminal FISKCON gurus.
SPEAKING TRUTH IS NOT APARADHA.TRUTH SHOULD BE SPOKEN, but many prabhupadanugas attack GGM with personal grudges.
GGM had to got the mud of bogus guru system unto his pure image.
But you see Rajesh prabhu, he also attacked the ritvik system that Srila Prabhupada established, and went on to initiate his own disciples as a GBC voted in guru. Srila Prabhupada himself left Gaudiya math when he failed to convince his godbrothers to take to the mission of Bhaktisidhanta goswami.
I’d agree with you, if at least his disciples claim to be followers of Srila Prabhupada. But the many GGS disciples I met all attacked the ritvik system.
You claimed GGS was simply following Srila Prabhupada’s order. Did GGS follow the final order? As a mahabhagavata he surely could have placed full faith in Krsna’s protection and preached this order far & wide. Instead he decided to tolerate untruth & stick with the pedophile group.
And now you want us to accept him as an empowered devotee of the Lord? I find that hard to swallow. Because I myself left ISKCON after coming to realize that none of the gurus are taking us back home, back to Godhead.
PD: OK there is a bit of history re-writing going on here. What actually happened is: GGM supported the GBC over the guru issue and he wrote so-called “Guru Tattva” “position papers” to defend the GBC and their guru system. And he supported Tamal, so much so, GGM was the person who stood up to defend Tamal when the rest of the GBC was trying to shut down Tamal and Narayana Maharaja’s gopi bhava club in 1993.
The REAL reason the GBC was going to chastise GGM later on was that he was saying that Srila Prabhupada’s idea that “we all originated in Krishna’s lila or sport” was a bogus idea, this was the so-called jiva tattva debate. The GBC — to its credit — said that Srila Prabhupada is right, we all originated with Krishna.
Whereas GGM was opposing this tattva, he was saying that “the tradition” and the Gaudiya Matha’s leaders like Sridhara Maharaja (who were saying we originated in impersonal brahman) are correct. Whereas Srila Prabhupada told us his God brothers are tinged with mayavada. So the idea that we come from brahman and not from Krishna’s personal association is in fact the mayavada idea, according to Srila Prabhupada. And GGM was supporting the smarta brahmana / Gaudiya Matha / mayavada view. That is the REAL reason the GBC was lowering the boom on him, not over the guru issue. And this became a big issue later with Narayana Maharaja as well, who also supported the view that we originated in brahman and that Srila Prabhupada’s idea is wrong.
In other words this had nothing to do with attacking the GBC over the guru issue, rather this was an attack on Srila Prabhupada for his preaching that we are going back to Godhead, not going back to brahman. Srila Prabhupada was a strict personalist and so the impersonalists were ganging up on him to attack his preaching ideas, just like they attacked the ritvik idea. This must have been quite a blessing for the Gaudiya Matha folks who disliked Srila Prabhupada and whom were called “envious” by Srila Prabhupada, now they had an inside man in the shape of GGM who was preaching that the Gaudiya Matha is bona fide and Srila Prabhupada is not, and he was right there inside ISKCON. They had a powerful mole in there. This also came up in the early 1970s, some devotees had become impersonalists and Srila Prabhupada said this is the influence of my 4th class God brothers. ys pd
Respected Gopinath Das prabhu,
Many of your statements are , and hence I can’t defend GGM against those statements. Ultimately truth should prevail.
However , it is my personal preference not to attack GGM based on these reasons, but those reasons can’t refute your valid argument.
1)GGM says, SP told him to stay in Fiskcon & be guru.
Considering high regard SP held for GGM & history of GGM I personally believed it.
2)about Living guru philosophy:
I don’t accept with Bhakti caru business bungle swami’s : SP is dead and gone
Living guru is mandatory kind of nonsense.
This was utterly defeated in this article:
http://prabhupadavision.com/2012/01/misconceptions/
3) ADVANTAGE OF MAHABHAGAVATA LIVING GURU:
I don’t think there is a maha bhagavata in Fiskcon gurus, Aindra prabhu is exception.
But if a living guru of uttama adhikara exists it is easy & beneficial for neophytes.
A PREMA STAGE DEVOTEE CAN DIRECTLY SEE AND TALK TO PRABHUPADA EVEN NOW!
But neophytes can no longer have Q & A enquiry with SP, of course SP books are perfect, but there are some personal specific circumstances where neophytes need
Guru’s direct guidance, books are generic.
In BG 4.34 Krsna refers guru by “Pari prasnena” that is about A LIVING SIKSHA GURU.
BECAUSE PRASNA IS ABOUT SIKSHA & for a neophyte who is not TATTVA-DARSI
enquiry I’d possible only with a current physically present guru.
SO IS LIVING GURU BUT TO TALK TO SP ONE NEED TO BE VERY ADVANCED,
THST HAPOENED IN GAUDIYA HISTORY, Eg. syamananda & his param guru gauri das pandit.
WHILE A MAHABHAGAVATA LIVING GURU IS HELPFUL FOR NEOPHYTES,
I have to admit such gurus are rare and almost not existent, ATLEAST IN FISKCON.
LIVING ADVANCED GURU IS HELPFUL DOES NOT MEAN A NEOPHYTE SHOULD ACCEPT A CRIMINAL-FISKCON GURUJIS LIKE:
hridayananda, Rabbinatha, Bhavananda etc.
Respected Gopinath prabhu,
Most of your statements are NOT UNTRUTH, they are valid points.
Please find my reply with some introspection about siddhanta in comment : 10 below.
So many times i have heard from GGS disciples that SP told him to become a guru, however none of them provided any real evidence for it.
They have a quote wherein SP says that GGS should make his own man, however that does not qualify as an authorization to be a guru. SP said to so many disciples to go start a project and make his own man. (instead of poaching manpower from others)
Hare Krsna,
I am not personally against GGS. It’s just that Srila Prabhupada appointed no one to succeed him as successor and all ISKCON devotees must toe the line.
In ISKCON we all have full rights to become great preachers, sankirtan leaders, book translators, temple presidents, siksa gurus and many other designations. But the diksa guru position belongs to Srila Prabhupada only.
GGS did claim that he was personally appointed by Srila Prabhupada to become a diksa guru. That in itself is authorization by his guru to become the next sampradaya acarya. But inspite of this authorization, GGS still went to get voted in by popular votes from the GBC members, knowing very well that they have deviated from Srila Prabhupada’s instruction.
Of course you have all rights to admire such devotees, as inspiration for your spiritual life. But as you’ve said, the truth must be told as it is, no matter how bitter it may seem.
In the Mahabharata, you can see how Lord Krsna wanted to kill Bhisma, a mahajana no less. You might be a great authority in spiritual life, but be on the wrong side, and the Lord will come after you, not in a favorable mood.
Thank you Gopinath Prabhu for profound spiritual insight and speaking from guru-sastra instead of being fanatic.
Though I like GGM personally, I find it difficult to follow his instruction of finding living guru & sticking to Fiskcon.
I myself is a victim of Fiskcon only because of my truthful nature they consider me enemy.
I can never ever forgive Fiskcon for the offenses they committed at lotus feet of many devotees like Sriman Aindra prabhu, your grace & many more.
Fiskcon is rascal bogus pretentive Sahajiya cult which ultimately results in demo,ishing & portraying Prabhupada’s public image as founder of a bogus Sahajiya cheating .organization.
“All my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I, one, may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It is not that I give an order, ‘Here is the next leader.’ Anyone who follows the previous leadership is the leader…. All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don’t want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who is following is perfect.”
(Srila Prabhupada, Back to Godhead magazine, Vol. 13, No. 1-2)
Total biased untrue fabrication, Pada. PS what makes all you kanisthas think every pure devotee is exactly the same? THAT is fanaticism!
So GGS is a GBC defender, PADA? The film clearly shows otherwise, and you have thus been exposed as a liar. Everything else you say is also a lie.
This site moderates out my replies in favor of the hard ritviks. I recommend sincere devotees to avoid this site, as it is kow-towing to liars and fanatics.
And Tamal was the core ring leader of the entire living guru program. So when GGM said in 1993, Tamal has to stay, GGM was defending the inner core leader of the whole conspiracy against Srila Prabhupada to hi-jack his ISKCON, and to promote the entire bogus molester messiahs out cropping. It was well known that Tamal was always lecturing that his two favorite friends in the world were Bhavananda and Narayana Maharaja.
So his two favorite people in the universe were: (a) the homosexual acharya of Mayapura (creating what ex-gurukulis told me was “hell on earth” at Mayapura), and Tamal’s other favorite was (b) NM, the ring leader of the gopi bhava club; Who said Srila Prabhupada’s book purports were bogus; Essentially that Srila Prabhupada was not giving us rasika; That worship of Lord Nrsingha was “scaring away Radharani”; That Srila Prabhupada’s yani kani tulasi prayer was “karma kanda”; that Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik process was “ritvik poison” and so forth.
And GGM knew this better than anyone that this was all the influence that Tamal was bringing in, and GGM wanted it to stay. GGM also knew people like us were being banned, beaten and assassinated by the Tamal clique, and he also wanted that leader of that element to stay. In sum, GGM was supporting the GBC bogus guru process.
The only person GGM really attacked vociferously was Srila Prabhupada, saying his jiva tattva was bogus and not in the tradition etc. So its pretty clear, GGM was a huge supporter of Tamal’s guru franchise business, and he was a supporter of the bogus Gaudiya Matha’s guru appointment system, and their mayavada jiva tattava system, etc. Of course, the people who were saying Hitler has to stay in power as the lord and master later on said, we were only trying to help Hitler. Hee hee. GGM was fully compromised with the GBC’s gurus and the Gaudiya Matha, thats it. He was not a bona fide pure devotee. ys pd
We moderate personal attacks on devotees as per our policy. We also moderate bad or crude language.
Srimukunda; The Hare Krishna Society continues to defend a convicted sex offender, whose conviction is listed on the US State Department web Site. They even have the audacity to declare anyone who disagrees with their defense of this convicted sex offender and alleged child molester is committing “sadhu-nindha.” Nevermind they are offending Srila Prabhupada by using his name and picture while defending a convicted sex offender and alleged child molester, who has been expelled from ISKCON and has been tracked around the world as a sexual predator. They even use Puranjana to attack the messenger and whistle-blower who exposes the connection between HKS and BEV. Puranjana then uses lies and dishonesty to distract from the truth that he is defending his good friend Yasodanandan, HKS and Tattva Darshana and BEV. I have nothing to do with any of this other than exposing the truth about a corrupt and dishonest HKS, Yasoda and Puranjana.
http://krishnaconsciousnessmovement.com/?p=255#more-255
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Puranjana Serves Berkeley ISKCON GBCs
I have no interest in answering Puranjana’s lies. His wife serves at ISKCON Berkeley under the GBC. So he is directly compromised with the same GBC he says he is exposing. His own family is helping raise money for the GBC to sue Bangalore and change Prabhupada’s books. why is this? why does he allow his wife to serve the “Child molester pooja bija” he tries to associate everyone with? He wants to claim I am with LA temple. but the truth is.. he is with ISKCON Berkeley. Just more of his lies. Wake up people, the twins Puranjana and Yasoda cannot be trusted. He should be ignored like the lying garbage he is.
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Anytime you see Puranjana say or post anything about me, Srimukunda, it’s just to distract from the facts that him and his buddy Yasoda are with TDD and BEV. Plain and simple. and he does it at the orders of Yasoda. Puranjana is a boot licker for Yasoda and the HKSCON.
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Yasodanandana and Puranjana are the two biggest liars in the Hare Krishna movement. They are dangerous because they say they represent Prabhupada, but by their actios they support, defend and cooperate with a known convicted ISKCON child molester. Puranjana claims to “protect the children” while he protects and defends TDD and his child molester haven, BEV. Everyone please wake up and investigate for yourselves that Puranjana, Yasoda, and HKS are working directly with, and again that is DIRECTLY with a convicted sex offender that was kicked out of ISKCON. these two will pick any child molesting garbage they find and promote him, and at the same time attack, and discredit and threaten with violence the whistleblower. These two liars are disgusting human beings.
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I, Sri Mukunda dasa would like to state I am sorry to have gotten involved with any dispute with Puranjana dasa. I always respected Puranjana for his work exposing the child molesters in ISKCON and the poisoners of Srila Prabhupada. He should never have tried to defend Yasoda, TDD and BEV. He should never have tried to attack me, publish outright lies about me, lies that open old wounds for me and my family. Unfortunately, he did all that and more. He claimed I am attacking the entire Krishna religion, another outright lie. Because of these lies I had to defend myself and at the same time point out his dishonesty and lies. After telling him the truth, which he ignored, he continued to post lies about me on his blog, which I feel to be at the direction of Yasoda. This is just to distract from the facts about TDD. When the truth about TDD was confirmed, He began his attacks on me. Puranjana has exposed TDD in the past, so why he is attacking me for what he himself has done? Why? Because now Yasoda is with TDD and Puranjana must tone down his attacks of TDD, because of Yasoda, now Puranjana says the worst thing he did was hold a BG in court. So I revealed his connection with Yasoda, their close ties and the way Yasoda uses Puranjana to do his dirty work. I have no interest in continuing with any discussion or communication with Puranjana or Yasoda or any official of the HKSCON.
I hope that Puranjana can extricate himself from the clutches of Yasoda and go back to the good work he was doing and give up the lies and dishonesty associated with HKSCON and come back to Srila Prabhupada.
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http://www.harekrsna.org/pada/documents/reward.htm
Nam Hatta World Sankirtan Party
P.O. Box 157 * Geyserville, CA 95445 * USA
Dated: June 1993
NOTE: This REWARD is still unclaimed by the many Iskcon Gurus as of the Year 2009
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This is a real offer. It’s not a joke. There is no expiration date. Bhima das backs it up, so if any ISKCON guru wants money, all he has to do is bring proof and collect on it.
So far no ISKCON guru has dared to come forward to answer it.
Some years back, Gour Govinda Maharaja disciples came to collect from Bhima in Singapore, insisting that their guru had told them that he had received a letter from Srila Prabhupada himself to become the acharya.
Bhima asked for the proof, but they had none. So a few months or so later, Gour Govinda Maharaja came to Singapore. Bhima went to the meeting, brought his cheque book, and after Gour Govinda Maharaja finished speaking his lecture, Bhima asked him, “So Maharaja, your disciples say that Srila Prabhupada personally gave you the order to become spiritual master. Can you please explain why you waited all those years until GBC appointed you to become guru? Why didn’t you immediately act on the order?”
Gour Govinda Maharaja responded, “What is that? What is it?” So Bhima spoke up a little louder, “Maharaja, is there an order for you to become guru?” No reply. Again Bhima asked, “Did Srila Prabhupada give you the order to become guru?” Silence. Bhima raised his voice, “Is there an order?” Everyone in the room was shocked. Maharaja was visibly stunned, and momentarily speechless. There was an uncomfortable pause.
He answered, “No order. No order. No order.” Three times. He was red-faced and couldn’t speak for 5 minutes afterwards, then asked the devotees to sing kirtan. A week later he passed away in India. Not since then has anyone else claimed to possess the required proof.
Bring a witness.
So Tamoharadasa, now that GGS is gone, who do we need to consult in order to understand what he said, so that we can understand what Srila Prabhupada said?
Tamoharadasa prabhuji you state this above somewhere
“This site moderates out my replies in favor of the hard ritviks. I recommend sincere devotees to avoid this site, as it is kow-towing to liars and fanatics.”
I have some questions for you prabhuji. Why did you say this and still keep checking and commenting on this site? If you advise sincere devotees to avoid this site then why do you still come here?
You also bring up leader point by Prabhupadaji and make us think that leader means initiating or rubberstamp guru. No leader means lead by our example as a good disciple of Prabhupadaji. Not imitate Prabhupadaji and make own disciple. This is not this leader that is talking about.
So prabhuji maybe you should lead by your own example and not see this website anymore as per your above statement? I think you will be happy then and will have less headache in your life.
Thanks for your kind considerations of my health, Prabhu. Not to worry, I endure these headaches for your sake.
Pada, you said:
PD: I actually met with Gaura Govinda maharaja (GGM) in person in Badger, and I told him I was promoting the idea that Srila Prabhupada is the acharya. He told me this is the bogus ritvik idea, you need a living person, and there is no living person in my preaching scheme. Wow! I had no idea I was dead already.
Common sense tells me (GGM) was referring to something along the lines of a living GURU such as Srila Prabhupada. It seems he knew you were alive materially at least because he was talking to you. Are you equating yourself with Srila Prabhupada? Or was your spiritual life dead already at this stage of the game, due to wanting nothing to do with spreading Krishna Consciousness but only to spend the rest of your life trying to avenge why you were kicked out of Iskcon?
Get over it Prabhu, we have all been mistreated and exploited but we go on serving Lord Krishna. Let Him punish the offenders. He allows us all to serve Him for some time out of His causeless mercy. If He wanted us all to become pure BEFORE we served Him where would any of us be today?
I am concerned about your health prabhuji.
The problem is your double standard how you recommend to any sincere devotee to avoid this site but you keep coming back yourself.
Being hypocritical is not good for anyone’s mental or spiritual health.
And adding to other comments prabhujis if Prabhupadaji said like this to GGS then we all hear this but Prabhupadaji said nothing in his will or any other command before he left. GGS did not have any special position given by Prabhupadaji so he had to apply like all other to be guru.
This is history of ISKCON past Prabhupadaji everyone must apply to be a guru and GGS had to do same.
So this is the real problem people making up many things that are not truthful. We must keep all things simple and suci then there is no problem and no arguing between us.
So please prabhuji rectify for your good and you will be happyier.
Dear Gopisvara Prabhu; You might wish to consider reading less, and hearing from and serving the disciples of HDG Srila Gour Govinda Swami more, that might resolve your current problem. AGTSP.