The original mailing;
HDG 108 Sri Srila Gour Govinda GoSwami Maharajah Thakura
Godbrother, siksa guru, and advanced pure devotee, he was born in a family of pure Oriyan Caitanya Rupanuga devotees, born resident of Jagannatha Puri dhama, trained in deity worship of Gopal, kirtana and sadhana and sastra from infancy, he eventually renounced his family, including sons, and government brahminical, mathematics etc, teaching career, at age 52ish, to wander as a poor beggar the Holy Places in search of his Gurudeva, rejecting all others. Sri GopalJiu finally sent him to Vrndavana, and there in the dhama, given diksa, brahminical, and sannyasa, all within weeks of each other, by the loving hand of Srila Prabhupada personally, and sent alone by him, with a mrdanga and a bead bag, to chant beneath a Bodhi tree, and thus ISKCON Orissa was born.
Maharajah displayed full siddhi and svarupa realization, this confirmed by advanced sannyasis in Iskcon and in Gaudiya Maths also. He regularly received prophetic communications from his Gopal Jiu, this confirmed by witnesses. So, he acted as actually qualified diksa guru within Iskcon after Srila Prabhupada's departure, and never occupied any of Srila Prabhupada's temples, but rather he built and was given complete charge by Srila Prabhupada while he was still with us. We lived in a mud hut, Hare Krsna!
Yes, he said one should hear by all means from a live spiritual master while they are with us, not impersonally just read and ignore the devotee,and Srila Prabhupada said exactly the same thing ! BOTH of them issued tapes, showing they both used technology. GGS of course accpted the ritivk initiation process, as he accepted and worshipped the Western devotees as his gurus and of course never questioned the initiation by priest process. He also rejected Gaudiya Maths and Narayana Maharajaha as so concerned with too many mantras and rituals etc compared to our simpler preaching programs worldwide. I once saw him make a mild face and wave his hand when Gaudiya Maths were mentioned by me. GGS is strict Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON. He is exactly the same as all us other Godbrothers in all his daily habits and beliefs, except pure and perfect.
He NEVER deviated an inch from his sannyasa vows, lived simply for Srila Prabhupada's service, and was jolly and un presupposing, expecting nothing in reward and rejecting all honors except basic ashram of sannyasi unless I absolutely forced him; i begged him to accept honors or respect by accepting this small pillow on the floor vyasasana, for the sake of preaching to others! - sitting on a thin pillow on the dirt ground on a rice mat, only on Sundays before the crowd, when he gave his Sunday feast talks for our guests. He did not want this honor and rejected it twice, but i pushed, and as it was his revered Western Godbrother demanding he do it for sake of the ashrama of ours, our preachings' sake, he conceded and did it nicely thenceforth as required by us. He formerly never preached to us, as we were above him! Thus, by Krsna's will we may have dragged him down from Utthama Paramhamsa to more like a Madhyama Parivrajakacarya, and he started to preach more widely and with necessary aggressive force, but always in good humor, jolly, loving, selfless, austere, clean, devoted, renounced merciful, learned, grave, heartful. Jolly , smiling, a delight to all!
Best of the servants of Prabhupada, Gurudeva is One.
He travelled the continents, but was banned in many places by jealous GBCists.
Acting according to Srila Prabhupada 's explicit and strict instructions to him personally, he never left the bogus Iskcon, despite his Oriyan sanga begging him to do so, but rather sacrificed his all and was eventually martyrred in Mayapura trying to reform the movement.
All Glories to his lotus feet!
From BV Avadhoot Swami,
to B.V. Bhagavat Mah…, Tamoharadasa v MS…, Navīna Kṛṣṇa dāsī, Parvati Devi Dasi, Basu Gopal Dasand 5 more
Sent 4 hours ago
"GGS of course accpted the ritivk initiation process, as he accepted and worshipped the Western devotees as his gurus and of course never questioned the initiation by priest process. He also rejected Gaudiya Maths and Narayana Maharajaha " Sorry, but I cannot figure how you come to this conclusion. How is it that you conclude such an idea of Srila GGM worshipping Western devotees ? He was on fire telling them to their faces how they could not give Krishna , IF they did not have Krishna in their heart of hearts. That's what he told Swami Krishnapada amongst others. He established real guru-tattva not some bogus guru-tattva that has no basis in shastra. When Srila Narayana Maharaja came to Puri he went to meet him privately and took his books asking for any future publications. He also asked three questions, one of which was whether the manjaris partake of the rasa lila with Krishna. After receiving the perfect reply from SNM he offered his full obeisances. When the GBC was ready to excommunicate GGM from Iskcon he chose to leave his body in Mayapura as per the direct instructions from Gopaljiu. When Tripurari Swami and Jagatguru came to ask his opinion on whether they should rejoin Iskcon his secretary told me that his remark was, ' In my opinion they should not'. How can Iskcon have any relevancy when they blaspheme and disturb the pure devotees of the Lord? Once he told Bhakti Caru Swami, ' Oh you are asking me to take lunch with all the GBC but when we come to meeting, then you just beat on my head!'. He told devotees never to leave their guru's society. Then he added that there is one solid reason for leaving and that is if the siddhanta is changed. After he said that the GBC voted to adopt the siddhanta of 'jiva falldown from Vaikuntha'. The leaders voted on our siddanta in a private meeting . When GGM heard this he was astounded. 'How can they vote on siddanta!' He spent may hours teaching a preaching that we did not fall. For that reason he was banned all over Iskcon. When banned by Harikesh Maharaj from N. Europe, GGM's remark was that' you may ban me but you will be banned from Goloka forever'. Hari bol, Hopefully one day when the heart is purified the proper siddanta will be revealed to one and all. Avadhoot Swami On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Tamoharadasa v MSc. wrote: Tamoharadasa v MSc. has sent you a message on Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON ; SPIrit-net Subject: Hare Krishna. y'all visit us again soon, ya hear? Some interesting history . ------------ (https://api.ning.com/files/g6dmmhn3aP94WfPOAIEbttKNlh6w2GSaXWjX4X6CLZjV-1xzqdNlaRpncWeBHbSE6Ni**x3hW-7s*Gdl8nHbZBc6loWqTSqq/ggs_13aw_small.jpg)HDG 108 Sri Srila Gour Govinda GoSwami Maharajah Thakura Godbrother, siksa guru, and advanced pure devotee, he was born in a family of pure Oriyan Caitanya Rupanuga devotees, born resident of Jagannatha Puri dhama, trained in deity worship of Gopal, kirtana and sadhana and sastra from infancy, he eventually renounced his family, including sons, and government brahminical, mathematics etc, teaching career, at age 52ish, to wander as a poor beggar the Holy Places in search of his Gurudeva, rejecting all others. Sri GopalJiu finally sent him to Vrndavana, and there in the dhama, given diksa, brahminical, and sannyasa, all within weeks of each other, by the loving hand of Srila Prabhupada personally, and sent alone by him, with a mrdanga and a bead bag, to chant beneath a Bodhi tree, and thus ISKCON Orissa was born. Maharajah displayed full siddhi and svarupa realization, this confirmed by advanced sannyasis in Iskcon and in Gaudiya Maths also. He regularly received prophetic communications from his Gopal Jiu, this confirmed by witnesses. So, he acted as actually qualified diksa guru within Iskcon after Srila Prabhupada's departure, and never occupied any of Srila Prabhupada's temples, but rather he built and was given complete charge by Srila Prabhupada while he was still with us. We lived in a mud hut, Hare Krsna! Yes, he said one should hear by all means from a live spiritual master while they are with us, not impersonally just read and ignore the devotee,and Srila Prabhupada said exactly the same thing ! BOTH of them issued tapes, showing they both used technology. GGS of course accpted the ritivk initiation process, as he accepted and worshipped the Western devotees as his gurus and of course never questioned the initiation by priest process. He also rejected Gaudiya Maths and Narayana Maharajaha as so concerned with too many mantras and rituals etc compared to our simpler preaching programs worldwide. I once saw him make a mild face and wave his hand when Gaudiya Maths were mentioned by me. GGS is strict Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON. He is exactly the same as all us other Godbrothers in all his daily habits and beliefs, except pure and perfect. He NEVER deviated an inch from his sannyasa vows, lived simply for Srila Prabhupada's service, and was jolly and un presupposing, expecting nothing in reward and rejecting all honors except basic ashram of sannyasi unless I absolutely forced him; i begged him to accept honors or respect by accepting this small pillow on the floor vyasasana, for the sake of preaching to others! - sitting on a thin pillow on the dirt ground on a rice mat, only on Sundays before the crowd, when he gave his Sunday feast talks for our guests. He did not want this honor and rejected it twice, but i pushed, and as it was his revered Western Godbrother demanding he do it for sake of the ashrama of ours, our preachings' sake, he conceded and did it nicely thenceforth as required by us. He formerly never preached to us, as we were above him! Thus, by Krsna's will we may have dragged him down from Utthama Paramhamsa to more like a Madhyama Parivrajakacarya, and he started to preach more widely and with necessary aggressive force, but always in good humor, jolly, loving, selfless, austere, clean, devoted, renounced merciful, learned, grave, heartful. Jolly , smiling, a delight to all! Best of the servants of Prabhupada, Gurudeva is One. He travelled the continents, but was banned in many places by jealous GBCists. Acting according to Srila Prabhupada 's explicit and strict instructions to him personally, he never left the bogus Iskcon, despite his Oriyan sanga begging him to do so, but rather sacrificed his all and was eventually martyrred in Mayapura trying to reform the movement. All Glories to his lotus feet! ------------ To reply to this message, click here: https://puredevoteeseva.ning.com/profiles/message/listInbox?xg_source=msg_mes_private -- To control which emails you receive on Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON ; SPIrit-net, go to: https://puredevoteeseva.ning.com/?xgo=td5qvQCxLto6EJG86AXneoKgpzr2xYMjK4S4JzT-r7Q&xg_source=msg_mes_private
From Tamoharadasa v MS… to Govindadasa, Errol Andrews, B.V. Bhagavat Mah…, William Benedict…, ACBSPdasand 61 more
Sent yesterday
From You to B.V. Bhagavat Mah…, bv avadhoot, Navīna Kṛṣṇa dāsī, Parvati Devi Dasi, Basu Gopal Das and 5 more…
Dearest Avadhoota Swami et al; Hare Krsna! Nice of you to drop in and offer us some interesting talks.
I myself lived with GGS for almost three years in a mud hut. This was 1977-1980. The history you tell is after this period. While in Bhubaneswara, I was asking him about mantras to transfer the brahmana thread. He noted that Gaudiya Maths has so many mantras and waved his hand as if to wave them off. He said we do not engage ourselves with all these things, we do not care for Gaudiya Maths. He said we do not care for what they do, we simply follow the program given by Srila Prabhupada.
Maharajah would never speak in English to the Westerners. He considerred us his superiors, did not think himself worthy of giving a class to us. As noted, he would not even sit on a thin pillow on the ground! So, basically we had to pull him into the position of parivrajkacarya. We are all initiated by ritvik process in which Srila Prabhupada sent a letter, and the ceremony was done by the ritivk at our home temples. He never questioned this, but accepted this process, ritivik process. He never said your initiation is bogus because you heard it from a tape, so he accepts.
The history given by you is much appreciated and we hope there will be more.
I hope mine is a beggining of a useful reply, and that we may hear from your further.
Hoping this meets you in best of health and spirits, pamho. AGTSP !
Pardon my dissection here, just to be logical and clear in my position re wordings etc; " here is the actual quote; "He also rejected Gaudiya Maths and Narayana Maharajaha as so concerned with too many mantras and rituals compared to our simpler preaching programs worldwide." Similar, but different. That is the full sentence, as you chopped off the qualifier, bold and italicized, at the end, without which, the sentence is actually incomplete.
So Maharajah, you are addressing a somewhat differently slanted sentence, not exactly the one i wrote ? So, to be quite clear re meaning;
I am stating clearly; he rejected this 64 rounds for begginers thing you do, and also Gaudiya Maths in general not as anything bad, but as impractical and not Iskcon, not our parampara, That's all. He rejected impractical preaching programs, and he stuck soundly with Srila Prabhupada's program, such as we do onsite. He had no allegiances to Narayana Swami, he was not a topic of conversation, rather he was generally also disposed against anyone perceived as outside ISKCON.
So far as Srila Narayana Swami Thakura, his name came up in casual conversation involving G.G.S saying that he is a great scholar and advanced devotee, but we are not interested in his association. So NMG was never important in any way at our ashrama, in that time period, and i doubt that that changed ?
What Gour Govinda S came to do later, in terms of darshana and book and obeisances, i was not there, and so take your word on it. Gour Govinda Swami always ffered his respects to devotees, and would not reject nice literatures from an advanced pure devotee.
I also have read and appreciated Swami Narayana Thakur's books, unfortunately not accepting all of what is in them though as this is not my parivara, my master's line, which is strictly with Srila Prabhupada. I do not serve other devotees except through his service, as did Srila Gour Govinda Swami, who gave his energy purely to serve Srila Prabhupada.
Perhaps Bhagavata Maharajaha has some memories of the 76-78 years which coincide, to check my own version versus his ?
Replies
Avadhoot Swami Maharajah's reply;
Tamohara Prabhu ji;
Thank you for your kind reply. Dandavat pranams to you.
Did not SP say that initiation is somewhat of a formality. I was in Sydney in '74 I think when
one devotee was serving SP without initiation and in a letter SP said that the mood of service in
the heart is real initiation. How many were initiated by SP and stayed? So, 'sadhu-sanga' means that there is a heart-to-heart love and bond that takes place. Ours in a process of sravana from realized souls with full surrender. In the story of the fallen brahmana from the Gita Mahatmya I believe, Dundukari as a ghost heard his brother Gokarna properly recite Bhagavatam whereas others though present were not afforded any grace.
So, the purpose of the Granthas or pararthika books is to get us to surrender and hear from the real deal, mahabhagavat in proper mood of love and service. Not that I did that or am doing that at present. I am most fallen. But this is my perspective on things.
So, whatever our condition or experience the bottom line on prema-bhakti seems to be getting the mercy of the siddha purushas. Now that SP,SGGS,SBNM, SBRSM have all gone and left us alone, we are left to cry and beg them , since they are all-pervasive personalities to please give us some mercy. Whether they again manifest or not is up to them, but what else can we do now.
Preaching must be there also, but everyone needs nourishment. Food for the heart. Otherwise in this dark and miserable world it is very hard to go on and on without full shelter and love.
Hari bol
Hare Krsna, Avadhoot Maharajah; Pamho.
Thank you for your kind reply. I did alter that piece, which is part of the current front page, to be less divisive.
We are always happy to hear these wonderful histories and other devotional tales and descriptions, so don't feel out of place, you can post here!
We have heard nothing much about your sanga, and hope all is going well within the Srila Naryana Maharajah devotional circles.
We push on slow but sure, yes, this service is our connection with heaven, by service done, now matter where we are, we can remain connected, at least in intent, if not in ability.
Your servant
pamho prabhus agtACBSP, nice to hear this wonderful param-para description about HDG GGM, we missed such great soul in vapu sanga but not in vani sanga which is more powerful because there is not the mind of the american prabhupadanugas who are criticize maharaj by taking HIM like all the ordinary gbc who took over SRILA PRABHUPADA transcendental movement,HDG GGM is been order by SRILA PRABHUPADA to take disciples because GGM were the only one who could see the original swarupa murti of SRILA PRABHUPADA,both of them born in a respectful vaisnava family therefore they were not blind like the westerners who are trying to become guru by the own way of mental speculation in this same lifetime without surrender to the pure devotees,HDG GGM had the power to do the will of SRILA PRABHUPADA because both of them are pure devotees of the lord,by meditating on THEIR lives we get purify not doubts about that by making our faith stronger to mind our real business in the way back home as THEY thought us,there is nothing else to do but find out our original spiritual bodies by remember THEIR param-para teaching until the last breath of our lives in this misery and temporary world,thank you for your sat-sanga agtys ys a.c seva das haribol