How does the genuine Hare Krishna Movement feel if you're Gay?
Well first of all lets understand that there are no hard and fast rules for the chanting of Hare Krishna. Chanting the names of God is not an artificial imposition on the mind.
It is a natural state of consciousness..
The Hare Krishna movement is about developing our dormant love for God--- we call him Krishna.
You can't help who you feel attraction to and in the Hare Krishna movement we acknowledge
that there are various types of desires.
Now its true that when Boy George first tried to join the Hare Krishna movement he had rejection. See this article--
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/when-gay-boy-geor...
But this was a growing pain for the early movement and has progressed to a better more realistic understanding--- Now there is an aspect of the movement called Galva
Gay and Lesbian vaishnava alliance
Here is the link
http://www.galva108.org/
This article explains that there are various types of living beings and gender not just male and female..
Allen Ginsberg was an early member of the movement and he was accepted by the founder AC Bhaktivedanta Swami
Conversations Between Srila Prabhupada
and Allen Ginsberg
In his meetings with Allen Ginsberg, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada set the example on how a Vaishnava should receive and interact with people who are openly homosexual. Allen Ginsberg was a famous poet from the “beat generation” of the 1950s. In 1956, he shocked America by publicly celebrating his homosexuality in the highly controversial book Howl. A legal challenge by outraged citizens to have the publication censored proved unsuccessful, and thus, for the first time in the United States, homosexuality was openly and honestly expressed in the public arena.
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The whole premise of the spiritual essence is we are not the material body.
Whatever body we find ourself in we can approach Krishna, simply by chanting the Holy Names.
If you have a bona fide name of God that is all that is required.
Past karma and inclinations are not an impediment.
Of course the purpose of the chanting is to develop unselfish unconditional love. Not just in name but as an actual fact.
Tags: Allen, Boy, Gay, George, Ginsberg, Hare, Krishna, Sexuality
Permalink Reply by Delilah7777
- When I think of Krishna, I think about the divine connection between the "Divine Feminine & Masculine" energies between two people, that transcends the human form and goes beyond what we feel attracted to in our physical bodies.... :)
Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer - Delete
Yes, precisely and well said, Delilah ! By ignoring and controlling the demands of the tongue belly and genitals, we become swamis, or masters of our own bodies and senses. This is preliminary to any yoga practice, and certainly to bhakti yoga. The topic here is beneath this level, the exact purpose is not so clear to me.
Bhaktas control their senses and do not engage in illicit sex, so there will be no gay devotees. Married couples, thats another story, but seeing as i am in the renounced order, topics of sexual orientation are not in my expertise or repertoire, but illicit sex of any kind is forbidden amongst the 3 renounced orders, 1. brahmacaries age up to 25 ish, householders 25-50 ish, 2. vanaprasthas 50-whatever, and 3. sannyasis. Only the householders have a license for sex life. Generally, to my best knowledge, there is no such thing as a gay marriage in Vedic culture.
So, any other sex is a minority indulgence. All illicit sex is frowned upon by yoga groups except perhaps Tantrics. There are gay cultures within the Vedic society on earth, where tolerance is natural.
- If you're gay you can have a partnership with another person of like mind, for the purpose of supporting each other in Krishna Consciousness. And there is no illicit sex . I was under the impression that was what Galva was about--- see link above.
Permalink Reply by Shelly We need NO ONE's approval for our sexuality. We own it! We need no one to validate us, accept us, tell us what we can and cannot do.
To seek acceptance is to just give your power away. People really shouldn't bother.
Krishna also dictates to his followers that sex is only to make babies. Yet he has 'cowherds' of girlfriends. Interesting.
Permalink Reply by Basu Gopala Das
The relationship that Krishna has with His cowherd girlfriends is found in the material world in a perverted form.
In the material realm people are really only interested in their own personal satisfaction, in the spiritual realm it is exactly the opposite. There is no selfishness involved.There is a competition to give as much as they can to the beloved without taking anything back. The idea is that sex is not Love.It is an animal propensity. There are four animal propensities---eating sleeping mating and defending. The problem is can you have a loving relationship with someone without sex? We hear a lot about love love love around in the new age buzz world.
Does that mean you are out to have sex with everyone? Do you love your children does that mean you want to have sex with them?Why do you think that Krishna is having sex with His cowherd girlfriends? Who says that ?
Who told you that?Its all about love... sex is a passion for some selfish animal gratification, It can be dovetailed in service to the world and society by creating pious holy offspring. Human life is meant to get out of the entanglement of illusion. The desire for sex is the crowning pleasure of the 3 D---its the lower chakra energy.How are you gonna ascend?
What do you think ascention is all about?Its about transcending and going beyond the animal desires.Do you think people hang around in the spiritual realm looking to screw each other?
There are guidelines on how to make progress in spiritual life. If you want no guidance try to make it on your own.
When you say " WE" you're really talking about yourself .
Krishna is not a dictator.
What type of power do you think you have?
--- " People really shouldn't bother"----Bother to do what?
The Quest for Enlightenment by His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhuada
Pg 230 If you want to learn the process of worshipping Krsna of loving Krsna, just try to follow in the footsteps of the gopis, the cowherd girls of Vrndanavana.
Plate 6: As Krsna returns from the forest of Vrndavana in the evening, His cowherd girlfriends rush out to greet Him, overwhelmed with love.
There's nothing spiritual and noble about refraining from sex. All you do is miss out! It's unnatural and weird. Sex is a celebration. It is a life force, rejuvenating pleasure. If you don't like it - then that's fine. But really you are just parrotting the words that some other teacher who doesn't know any better has told you to believe and is a total hypocrite as he has loads of girlfriends but dictates to others that they can only have sex when making babies. Oh the popes of the Church all brainwashed people with that one. Think for yourself!
And no of course you don't have sex with children!!!!
Sex is a recreational fun activity between 2 adults. People are going to do it regardless of what Krsna the hypocrite preaches.
Shelly
- Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer
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- Your icon looks like Mother Putana, Shelly. She was also excellent in being bitterly contrary, and in the end, she acheived liberation.
- Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer
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- Einstein reply; Who cares anyway?
To seek your ultimate truth about ANYTHING you have to look within, so don't let it bother you what who says about what, not krishna, jesus, buddha or any other being!! You'll find what's right for you when you look inside and not let outworldly concepts and beliefs taint your own perception that is garnered from seeking within your own being, cos only you and your higher self knows what is planned for you in this incarnation.
P.S: Chanting mantras only serves to numb the brain, try something more NATURAL like deep breathing.
Permalink Reply by Unlabeled?
Although, strangely, some people need to be told to follow their heart. Since, of course, they follow everyone around them, it takes someone around them to say, stop doing what others tell you.
One of the most annoying and delightful paradoxes.
One could say, of course, that they are doing what they choose to do-- maybe it's you who wants to change them to your interests. Whether it be personal gain, or satisfaction, it still seems to be driven by those who seek something, to say, "Are you sure that is the truth?"
But, truth, again, is experiential, and what one decides to believe.
This gives you the freedom to believe anything, and do anything possible, which includes railing against all contrary beliefs. Or accepting them. Or killing. Or suicide. Or saving. Or attempt to interfere with another's free will. Which, technically, seems to be impossible, but it can be given up. Eventually, a conflict might arise, and problems arise.
So, it seems, that everything is going just the way it has happened. All the actions, interpretations, perspectives, ideas, beliefs, has all led up to this moment. It's just about gaining new perspective on what has happened, and is happened.
At least, that's what I think.
("You" is meant in a general sense, nothing personal Einstein. Is that your actual name?)
Tamoharadasa reply; Its all Krsna's game. What you kindly said that sounded good, up until the last sentence...
Chanting is deep breathing also, Mr. Einstein. Try it sometime. You obviously are lacking some experience in this matter ? Simply by chanting, bhaki yoga, all lesser yogas are fulfilled. You seem to take this movement lightly?
It was 1974, Delhi, where I was waiting for a plane to New York, and had three days to spend. I stayed in a place in old Delhi frequented by Westerners, and proceeded to chant rounds while seated upon the rooftop veranda. After a while, a fellow came over and asked me where i had learned perfect breath control like that. He explained that he was a follower of Sri Aurobindo, and had been practising for years, and could not master breath control. I was shocked, not realizing, until then, that simply by dint of concentrated chanting, all the lesser yogas of breath control had been achieved by me at a very young age, as Krsna told in the Bhagavad Gita. I was at that time about 21, chanting 16 rounds for about 3 years.
Permalink Reply by einstein
This is what I don't understand about some people in general. Running about talking about this one and that ones teaching or gospel or being a follower of this dude and that dude................WHY in this day and age are people STILL following so-called "gurus" & "masters" when you are your best teacher! We all have our OWN path back to source and no two paths are ever the same! Every and I mean EVERY religion and belief structure on this planet is tainted with untruths and misconceptions and even if someone told you something is true, it won't be true for you unless it "feels" right.
"I was shocked, not realizing, until then, that simply by dint of concentrated chanting, all the lesser yogas of breath control had been achieved by me at a very young age" (ego).
Well done, I should give you a medal!
- Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer
Thank you ! Medal accepted. May you be blessed with more hearing of the Holy Name of Sri Krishna.
- How you react to this information is to show you how you really are. Can you not feel happy for someone else's success?It is part of our service to talk about the glories of Krishna. I am not trying to mislead anyone.
I am trying to stick to the dharma and not make things up. The thread of this discussion is that it doesnt matter your sexual orientation... whatever it is you can get enlightenment and make progress to the truth.
We believe in devotion.There are billions of people in the world like us. Get used to it.
The trouble with the world is not God or religion.Its blind hatred for others beliefs.
I am sharing information on this network just like many thousands of other members do.You have a right to accept it or reject it. Why dont you try to go beyond your bigotry and hatred and see that this is not an archaic technique of spirituality.
As the Buddha said--- ( Who happened to be an avatra of Vishnu for a specific purpose) we are each others mirrors. - Permalink Reply by Shelly
Bringers of the Dawn, Barbara Marcianak
Sexuality is a key. It is a doorway to the higher realms of consciousness.
Sexuality connects you with a frequency of ecstasy, which connects you back to your divine source and to information.
The sexual parts of the body are avenues to pleasure that create frequencies that heal and stimulate the body and potentially lead it to its higher spiritual self.
Shelly
Tantra does not advocate the wasting and draining of the life force.White or Black the sexual energy is internalized for higher Spiritual Purposes. Fire is a powerful force-- it can be used to warm a cold room or cook a meal or it can burn and destroy. How you use it becomes your responsibility.It can be used for peaceful means or destruction and you suffer or enjoy the result.Chanting of the Holy Names of Krishna is considered to be like an elevator to a higher platform of love. Most of what goes on in Tantra is misunderstood.Shiva taught the imperishable science to His wife Paravati
The devotees of Krishna are not against sexuality.We understand the powerful force of our own sexuality and we preserve it.By preserving the sexuality and channeling it upward to the higher energy chakras we open our hearts
and our brains to ecstasy. Bhakti Yoga is not the only Yoga that believes in the preservation of the life force.
What process do you know that encourages the squeezing out of the life force as much as possible?
The controlling of the life force starts wth the tongue.
First there is the vibrating of the mantra Hare Krishna Hare Krishna.Then there is the eating of foodstuffs(vegetarian)
offered to Krishna as a sanctification. There is a direct line from the tongue to the belly then the genitals.
Its quite simple to align the chakras and raise up the spiritual energy in this way.I invite anyone who is frustrated with their
attempt to gratify physical desires to try it.- Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer
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Mundane sexualtiy is the bodily conscious greed for selfish pleasure of the temporary physical form. That binds the soul in matter birth after birth, and is the primary source of suffering therefore. This attachment to mundane sexlife is the great binder.
Your true sexuality is in the spiritual form, not the temporary material body composed of the elements of darkness. When under the control of Maya, one cannot control oneself even if one wanted to. That means slavery. Those who are weak, and the foolish and the lusty uncontrolled, will falldown by practising sex magic. Only the fully self-controlled can succeed in tantric arts. And they don't advertise, the real tantrics, as they know it is not a path for mankind, just for a handfull of specialists.
Is it really so satisfying to bump sweaty bags of puss and stool and mucous to try to eek out an ounce of pleasure? The sublimity is lost when the farts and sweat occurr; this is spiritual life? Rather it is astral self- masturbation.
Thing is, once you have tasted fine wine, stale beer doesn't quite cut it anymore. Sex life in the heavenly planets, for example, is such that it is possible to actually enjoy, but not for long. Lord Krsna is the original source of sex life, being the seed giving Father, and when the soul realizes their relationshsip with Him, then in the original sprirtual context, real sex life is possible.
Shelly, you have totally misunderstood everything Basu is giving. You are afraid of responsibility for your uncontrolled actions? You do not know what is spirit and what is matter, therefore you cannot distinguish or understand Krsna's sexuality. You are thinking it is mundane sexlife, so you have misunderstood everything. You are very presuming to instruct Krsna how to act. He will no doubt reciporcate to this accusation, have no doubts, it is most inauspicious.
No matter how much you try to justify, all the yoga sastra, (except the doubtful black arts of tantra induluged in by animal slaughterers), call for controlled sex life and control of the tongue, for example, not blaspheming advanced beings. Seeing as you advocate illicit sex and like to blaspheme God and His devotees, you are obviously a practictioner of black arts, a demon, and should be avoided by God conscious persons, as your tongue is uncontrolled and spouts lies and false accustions against even the Supreme Personality of Godhead, right to the faces of His devotees ! This is very inauspicious for you. I humbly suggest you immediately take up a vow of austerity and attonement for your hatred of others, otherwise it will not go well for you, that is my opinion.
Why not instead hear and respect our time-honored path, even if it differs from yours, and stop trying to hurt the feelings of others to gain some perverted pleasure by blaspheming their Deities?
Shelley ; I'm not afraid of a man who tells devotees to follow him.
I am simply revealing the truth that's all. It's not done in a way that is slanderous but it's direct to the point. The information comes from his own book which I have on my bookshelf.
Are you indicating to me that I ought to be afraid in case he retaliates? This is a similar pattern to the popes and christians who told people that anyone speaking not so highly of their god, that he will strike them down. It's fear based as well as control based.
If anything I do agree on the Hare Krsna movement is the vegetarian way of life. That is inspiring to me and their restaurants are delicious.
Permalink Reply by Martin Askey
Dear Friend,
The folowing link is the official wikopedia on defining the religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Krishna
It wiould seem it is a question of conscious, so it is up to you my friend.
Namaste
Martin
- Permalink Reply by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer
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I did go vist there, as linked, and saw nothing important, so what was your point please, dear Martin Askey? I would like to follow your idea, could you kindly elaborate?
( Pardon me, but I am no fan of wikipedia, as in my opinion, they're just popular opinions, mere popular belief, not reality at all, from my own limited experiences with it.)
Namaste. Haribol !
Replies
Simply explaining the laws of karma, Shelly. You seem not to grasp them. Whether you speak lies of any incarnation of Godhead or their servants, it is always inauspicious, that is my experiences. What you put out, comes back. You purposefully speak about someone you don't know behind their back, like they cannot defend themself if they want to? Thats ignorant, and thats ignorance is not auspicious.
Krishna is not a stone, thats a fact. He's everywhere, thats a fact, including within your heart, according to every transcendental religion, science, and practice and soullfully and devotedly followed by hundreds of millions of spiritually austere spirtually aware humans, but you feel no shame at all when you try to disgrace Godhead ? Thats a laugh !
Look, I'm getting carried away, thats somewhat my nature, but if i accused your husband of having sex with a bunch of slutty whores, how would you like it?