Hare Krsna;
The Final Conversation
Part one
When I was asked to look at the report that the GBC has recently published concerning the conversation that took place between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja I immediately understood that they were going to try and present this in a way which would minimize Srila Narayan Maharajas importance in the Samadhi ceremony and his intimate relationship with Srila Prabhupada. Therefore I was not surprised at what I saw but deeply disappointed. However upon examining the document with a Native Bengali speaker and comparing it to the sound file they provided I was shocked that they would be so bold as to make so many changes, omissions, and even additions to the conversation and still provide us with the original tape now highly digitally restored. I am not sure what they were thinking when they were doing this but it was obvious that they felt confident that they could get away with it.
In the early 90’s the followers of Srila Narayan Maharaja made a translation and transcription of this conversation which was published in the book called “Their Lasting Relationship”. The title of the article itself is “Prabhupada’s Final Order: On ISKCON and Srila Narayan Maharaja.” Based on the digitally restored file that I listened to with the Bengali translator there are also numerous errors in this presentation as well. However the translation work by Srila Narayan Maharaja’s disciples was done in the early 90’s off of a cheap cassette tape and not a digitally restored tape with all the background noise removed. I spoke to the person who listened to the cassette tape and did the translation for that book. He explained how he had to listen to it numerous times just to make out the basic words in the conversation and still he was not absolutely sure about some things but did the best he could under the circumstances. So considering the obstacles he had to face it is understandable that there would be errors in the presentation.
I am not sure what the excuse is for ISKCONS recent presentation, however, in commenting on their presentation I would first like to address the issue of the intimate relationship between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja as it concerns this and other conversations which I and other devotees witnessed. If you go to the Veda Base folio and look at the conversation where Tamal Krishna and others are discussing Srila Narayan Maharaja coming on October 8th 1977 you will see that right after the conversation where Srila Prabhupada says: ”Narayan Maharaja comes; then everything is all right” the following conversation ensues after a break:
Prabhupäda: When you have come back?
Bhagavat: I just came just now, a half hour before, from America.
Upendra: And he's real skinny, Srila Prabhupada. He's skinny.
Prabhupäda: Why?
Bhagavat: Because I am following cäturmäsya. I have reduced to 160 pounds. Before I was 260. Now I am 160.
Prabhupäda: Very nice.
Bhagavat: Shall I chant?
Prabhupäda: Yes. (kértana begins)
So here is the evidence that I was in Vrndavan at this time and witnessed Srila Narayan Maharajas intimate relationship with Srila Prabhupada.
Not only was I present for several meetings between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja but others were present also. Here is a copy of a post made on face book by one of my god brothers Pita Das:
“GBC says that NM last Conversation with SP is Oct 8 1977. I was present Nov 10 or 11the when Srila Prabhupada met NM and Swami Bon. First in English I heard SP ask NM to watch over his disciples. Then there was a Bengali Hindi conversation lasting at least 20 minutes. Don’t know if it was taped. Many tapes of 1977 have disappeared Sankarshan Prabhu was duplicating them in Houston naming them by content. He now says they never existed”
This leads us to another question. Where are the tapes? In the folio there are no taped conversations listed from August 18th to October 1st. Why Is that? Where are the conversations? Srila Prabhupada was Silent for 6 weeks? Here we have a devotee who was a witness to a conversation only 1 to 3 days before Srila Prabhupada left where this devotee heard Srila Prabhupada say in English to Srila Narayan Maharaja please take care of my disciples. Where is that tape? Why is the ISKCON GBC saying there is no such conversation when we have witnesses that there was? This same devotee says that Sankarshan Prabhu was making copies of those tapes. I have received an email from Sankarshan Prabhu where he states that he had tapes of Srila Prabhupada but he never had any tapes from Vrndavan in 1977. Are the tapes in the archives? Let’s see what Ekanath Prabhu has to say about that.
I took the following excerpt from a letter posted to the Sampradaya Sun on February 5th 2010 titled “Setting the Record Straight on Srila Prabhupada’s Audio” written by Ekanath Prabhu the director of the BBT Archives. The following except reveals just how much audio of Srila Prabhupada has not been published:
PS. Ongoing progress chart as of 02-05-2010:
Audio ready for transcribing - 47
Bengali proofreading in progress - 4
Digital cassette transfers to be indentified - 249
English proofreading completed--Stage 1 - 110
English proofreading in progress--Stage 1 - 62
English proofreading in progress--Stage 2 - 16
English transcribing in progress - 66
Hindi transcribing in progress - 15
Bengali ready for transcribing - 15
Ready for Folio-- Veda Base ® - 10
Hindi ready for transcribing - 54
Sanskrit ready for proofreading - 50
Reels to be digitized and to be indentified - 161
Sanskrit proofreading in progress - 26
Transcripts ready for English proofreading--Stage 1 - 44
Conservative estimate of new audio files forthcoming – 500
That is 500 audio files unpublished by the archives. Is there something in those files that the GBC is obfuscating from us? Ekanath says there is not but we have witnesses to conversations and there are no tapes, WHY? I looked in the folio to see if I could find anything on the 10th or 11th of November 1977 concerning a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja/Bon Maharaja. On November 13th there is a conversation that seems to pick up in the middle between Srila Prabhupada and Bon Maharaja. Is this the conversation the devotee is talking about? If so this is the day before Srila Prabhupada left. I was there on the last day and Srila Prabhupada did not communicate with anyone except Srila Narayan Maharaja in the last 5 hours of his manifest presence on this planet, which I will explain in a minute. However here we have a witness to a conversation partially in English between Srila Narayan Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada where the devotee heard Srila Prabhupada say in the English Language “please take care of my disciples” and we have an indication from the folio that this may have taken place on the 13th November as the other person the devotee saw in the room was Bon Maharaja and the folio conversation is placing Bon Maharaja in the room with Srila Prabhupada on November 13th. So when Srila Narayan Maharaja says sometimes “I spoke to Swamiji on the last day” is he referring to this conversation on the 13th the day before Srila Prabhupada left? If so WHERE IS THE AUDIO TAPE? Why is it we have an audio of the conversation between Bon Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada in the middle without the tape of the beginning of the conversation? WHERE ARE THE ALL OF THE AUDIO FILES?
I remember when Srila Narayan Maharaja came on the 8th to talk to Srila Prabhupada. Several times after that Srila Narayan Maharaja came to see Srila Prabhupada. I was in the room on some of those occasions. The intimacy between Srila Narayan Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada was very, very, deep. It was clear that they had a spiritual intimacy between them. I felt deeply privileged to witness the beautiful spiritual exchanges between these two great Mahabhagavats.
When first I saw Srila Narayan Maharaja walking into temple compound at Krishna Balarama Mandir I was very impressed by his demeanor. His deep blue eyes looked clear and radiant and his skin was glowing in a way I only remember Srila Prabhupada’s skin glowing. His graceful carriage when he walked made it appear like he was floating. He immediately impressed me as an extraordinary personality. It was a day or two later when he returned to meet with Srila Prabhupada that we were formally introduced.
On the first occasion that I was formally introduced to Srila Narayan Maharaja he appreciated that I was following the principles of cäturmäsya. He then took me by the arm and escorted me across the room to the side of the bed where Srila Prabhupada was lying down. He then described to me the meaning of the position and posture of Srila Prabhupada’s hands, feet, and torso. At the end of the description he said that this posture was the dancing pose and it meant that Srila Prabhupada was dancing with Radha and Krishna as we spoke. Srila Prabhupada was in a deep spiritual trance like sleep of Samadhi and was not available for having an interaction with the external world. However when Srila Prabhupada came out of his spiritual trance like state a few hours later he said that he had been talking with Krishna. Hearing that from Srila Prabhupada’s lotus lips and remembering what Srila Narayan Maharaja had said earlier that day, I was convinced then and there that Srila Narayan Maharaja was also a pure devotee like Srila Prabhupada and that Srila Narayan Maharaja could also see and speak to Sri Sri Radha and Krishna just like Srila Prabhupada.
On the last day when Srila Prabhupada departed from this world I saw Srila Narayan Maharaja enter the room. Again Srila Prabhupada was not communicating with anyone but was this time in a state of trance ecstasy and was exhibiting various ecstatic symptoms like trembling, rolling, roaring, belching, being stunned, turning pale, and profusely crying. No one was able to communicate with Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada was not talking to anyone. He was not conscious of the external world even though we were crying, chanting, and massaging his body. When Srila Narayan Maharaja entered the room he immediately came to the head of the bed where I was kneeling and massaging Srila Prabhupada’s head. Srila Narayan Maharaja kneeled at the side of the bed, leaned forward and placing his mouth next to Srila Prabhupada’s ear he chanted a mantra to calm his mood. At this point Srila Prabhupada came out of his trance ecstasy and became motionless. He then raised his hand up in the air pointing his fingers toward Srila Narayan Maharaja in a gesture of giving blessings. A gesture I had seen before and it was definitely directed at Srila Narayan Maharaja.
In this recently produced paper the GBC tries to make it look like Srila Narayan Maharaja has misrepresented himself when he says that he was there on the last day. However we have two witnesses that saw him on the last and next to last day. On the next to last day Srila Prabhupada had a conversation with Srila Narayan Maharaja which it appears was either taped and the tape is missing or was not taped and is only in the memory of the witness. On the last day Srila Narayan Maharaja communicated with Srila Prabhupada in a very powerful spiritual way which no other disciple of Srila Prabhupada could. Furthermore there are eyewitness accounts where it appears that there were times when Srila Narayan Maharaja went to visit Srila Prabhupada and he was not communicating with anyone else. Furthermore there is a video on You Tube in which Bhakti Caru Maharaja is speaking at the Devananda Gaudiya Matha in front of Srila Narayan Maharaja, Tamal Krishna and Giriraja Maharaja and many ISKCON devotees. He says the following words I quote: “Although junior to Srila Prabhupada (pause in speech) Srila Prabhupada used to treat him like his intimate friend, of course in those days none of us were in Krishna Consciousness. But later on when Srila Prabhupada was in Vrndavan in 1977 preparing to leave this planet and go back to Krishna’s eternal pastimes. Srila Prabhupada displayed what an intimate relationship he had with His Divine Grace Srila Narayan Maharaja. Narayan Maharaja used to come and see Srila Prabhupada quite often and they used to discuss about various things very intimately.” The link to that you tube video is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbG9Hx0D7mM :
The complete mp3 conversation http://sbnmcd.org/mp3/19940317_20_Bhakti Caru and Gurudevs Lecture to ISKCON NParikrama Party(SBNM.mp3
Here we have a GBC/GURU from ISKCON, who is presently holding both those positions, who is contradicting in the present paper issued by the GBC body his previous statements of the frequency and intimacy of the relationship between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja. These eyewitness accounts clearly indicate that Srila Narayan Maharaja is not exaggerating as the GBC contends but that rather the GBC is minimizing the frequency and intimacy of the relationship Srila Prabhupada had with Srila Narayan Maharaja and minimizing the position of Srila Narayan Maharaja in relation to ISKCON.
However the intimacy of the relationship between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja does not start in 1977 in Vraja during Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance pastimes as Bhakti Caru Maharaja points out, but starts 30 years earlier when they first met. Here is an excerpt from a letter written by Srila Prabhupada to Srila Narayan Maharaja on September 28th 1966:
“Our relationship is certainly based on spontaneous love. That is why there is no chance of us forgetting one another…..From the first time I saw you I have been your constant well wisher. At first sight of me, Srila Prabhupada also saw mw with such love. It was in my very first darshan of Srila Prabhupada that I learned how to love.” (Excerpt from a letter by Srila Prabhupada to Srila Narayan Maharaja dated September 28th, 1966)
This letter makes it clear in Srila Prabhupada’s own words that Srila Prabhupada had very intimate feelings for Srila Narayan Maharaja from the moment they met. Some devotees may say that Srila Prabhupada has expressed similar sentiments to various disciples. However the extent to which Srila Prabhupada is comparing the intimacy of his feelings for Srila Narayan Maharaja with his own spiritual master’s feelings for him has, to the best of my knowledge, never been expressed to any of his disciples quite the way he is expressing it here to Srila Narayan Maharaja. ISKCONS attempt to diminish the intimacy of the relationship between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja based on gerrymandering this one conversation and juxtaposing it against selected and various statements of Srila Narayan Maharaja is in my opinion a shameful exhibition that offends both Acharya’s.
The claim of the GBC is that they are doing this to protect Srila Prabhupada’s movement. However it was Srila Narayan Maharaja who really saved Srila Prabhupada’s movement from being given to Madan Mohan De, who is Srila Prabhupada’s son from his previous ashram, by the courts.
In this court case brought against ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada departed, Madan Mohan De proposed that Srila Prabhupada was not a Brahmin and therefore could not take sannyas. According to presentation to the court this meant that Srila Prabhupada was in fact a business man and that ISKCON was his business enterprise and that it legally belonged to the blood relations, meaning him, the hereditary son. Srila Narayan Maharaja went to court in Bombay at least 6 times at his own expense to serve as a witness on behalf of ISKCON in this case. He quoted extensive shastric evidence proving that a person was a Brahmin by qualification not by birth. That any Vaishnava was equal to and greater than a Brahmin and therefore was qualified to accept the Tridandi sannyas order. He quoted extensive evidence about the history and authority of the tridandi sannyas order and its validity according to shastra. He further explained that it was the order of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura, the authorized Acharya in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya and the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that any person who is a Vaishnava by qualification, no matter what their birth lineage is in fact a qualified Brahmin and that person could and should take sannyas at the appropriate time. He explained that his Guru, Srila Bhakti Prajnana Keshava Goswami who was Srila Prabhupada’s God brother was an authorized sannyasi in the line from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura and was qualified to award the sannyas diksha and mantras. In this way Srila Narayan Maharaja gave evidence that played a crucial role in the case to save ISKCON. Evidence that in fact no one at that time in ISKCON was qualified to give. So what is Srila Narayan Maharaja's reward for helping Srila Prabhupada’s disciples to protect ISKCON from the court case of his son? What is his reward? He is banned from ISKCON.
If we look at the character of Srila Narayan Maharaja we see first of all that he came to the lotus feet of his Guru as a young man, leaving behind a wife and child and forsaking the orders of his father and mother. This may be no big deal in America but in India this is a serious breach of historical and Vedic social and moral customs. He took to the practice of Bhakti in 1946 and never left the practice of devotional service nor did he disregard its principles at any time in his devotional career. He took Sannyas in 1952 before most of us were even born and he never deviated from his Sannyas ashram vows in 58 years. He has always chanted a minimum of 100,000 holy names every day since the very beginning of his practice of Bhakti which is nearly 65 years. He has demonstrated his elevated position by remaining conscious and chanting Hare Krishna while under anesthesia during heart surgery. Only someone who is completely on the transcendental platform and whose soul is completely free from the encumbrance of the false ego and hence the entire subtle body could perform such a feat because his soul directly inhabits the body and is not affected by anesthesia. One morning during this past Kartik while we were listening to Srila Narayan Maharaja give his morning dissertation the priest from Seva Kunja came into our temple. He was carrying with him the Maha Prasadam and garlands from the previous nights Rasa Lila activities in Seva Kunja. The priest said that he was ordered by Srimati Radhika in a dream to bring the Maha Prasada to her dear sakhi who is known in this world as Narayan Maharaja. Srila Narayan Maharaja is the Mahabhagavat who is dearly beloved of Srimati Radharani and Srila Prabhupada.
In contrast to this picture of ideal and transcendental devotional behavior and spiritual intimacy with the Supreme Lord we have a plethora of persons in ISKCON calling themselves Gurus and Spiritual leaders who are not even able to follow the most basic adjusted principles of Bhakti like following the 4 regulative principles and chanting 16 rounds every day. Out of the so called original eleven Gurus, eight of them have admittedly fallen from the principles of Bhakti. There are numerous others who were made gurus later who have also fallen. Some devotees have been initiated and reinitiated as many as five times. The GBC as a body has written and rewritten one contradictory philosophical and theological position paper after another in order to protect its institutional conceptions only to change them later on. The GBC has admitted to committing serious aparadhas against Srila Sridhara Maharaja and then apologized later on after realizing their mistake. The GBC has admitted to committing serious aparadhas against their own exalted God brother Srila Gaur Govinda Maharaja and then apologized when realizing their mistake later on. They tried to obfuscate that they wanted to ban only Srila Narayan Maharaja from ISKCON in 1995 by making a ban on all of Srila Prabhupada’s God Brothers from visiting the temples. Then they broke their own policy and invited both Bhakti Pramode Puri Maharaja and Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaja to ISKCON Vrndavan demonstrating that it was really an exclusive policy against Srila Narayan Maharaja. Devotees in the institution of ISKCON up to its highest levels repeatedly committed physical and sexual abuses against children and women and then the GBC systematically covered it up for years.
This same GBC body is now saying that Srila Narayan Maharaja was not with Srila Prabhupada on the last day, did not meet with him numerous times and have intimate conversations with him, and did not receive instructions to guide and help his disciples. I have shown you in this article that we have witnesses Pita das and Myself, that were present when Srila Narayan Maharaja was with Srila Prabhupada on the next to last and last day. We have witnesses, including a standing member of their present GBC body, Bhakti Caru, who have seen Srila Narayan Maharaja visit Srila Prabhupada numerous times, besides the October 8th conversation, and have intimate spiritual discussions with him. We have witnesses like Pita das who have heard Srila Prabhupada ask Srila Narayan Maharaja to guide and protect his disciples and his mission and we have demonstrated in this article how he has performed this task by saving the entire society. Yet this same GBC Body who has made so many mistakes in the past are now trying to tell us that the Mahabhagavat, a person of great integrity and unblemished character who has lived a true and exceptional devotional life is misrepresenting the facts about his relationship Srila Prabhupada.
I have now shown you in this the first part of my refutation how the GBC have contradicted themselves on the points that they have tried to establish in their paper the Final Conversation. Now in the second part of my refutation I will present a new commentary on the conversation based on the accurate translation of the digitized audio of the October 8th conversation and demonstrate yet again how they have mistranslated the words and meanings of Srila Prabhupada’s words in order to minimize the intimacy of his relationship with Srila Narayan Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to him to take care of his society and his disciples.
Replies
The Truth Regarding GBC Successorship
By Syamarani (Jadurani) dasi
I am writing this as a partial response to a recent ISKCON GBC paper. The GBC paper had been commenting on a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja during the last days of Prabhupada’s manifest stay in this world. The GBC paper tried to cast doubt on Srila Prabhupada’s ordering Srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja to give spiritual nourishment, spiritual training, and spiritual leadership to his disciples and followers.
In this regard there is an old saying: “While pointing one finger at someone else, one is pointing three fingers at himself.” This means, “One is blaming someone else, whereas it is actually the blamer who is to be blamed. In this connection, perhaps the “three fingers” is that it was the GBC that was never appointed by Srila Prabhupada to be his spiritual successor.
Many devotees think that Prabhupada personally wrote a Last Will in 1977 in which he turned over the spiritual institution of ISKCON to the GBC body as the 'executors' and 'ultimate managerial authorities,' meaning the ultimate managerial and spiritual authority of all the devotees. One example of this type of thought is that the former ISKCON guru Ramesvara Svami wrote in his 1986 Vyasa-puja offering: “I am trying to take shelter of your G.B.C. Body, as you ordered all your followers to do in your last will.” Another example of this conception is that in 1992, Trivikrama Svami wrote in his Vyasa-puja offering: “And in your last will you made it clear that ISKCON, under the authority of the GBC, was how you wanted to extend your mercy to the vast number of sincere souls who would be coming in the future. Can anyone doubt this? Isn't this the simple truth?”
As you will see from the transcription below, which was taken verbatim from Srila Prabhupada’s Vedabase folio, the Will was not a Will of spiritual successorship at all. It was simply a legal document: so that ISKCON's properties could be legally protected from unlawful persons (such as the family members of Srila Prabhupada’s previous asrama), so that its tax exemption would remain intact, and so that no individual devotee could claim ownership of any temple. What follows is the conversation in which the drafting of the Will was discussed. Below that please find the final posting of the Will, called “Declaration of Will,” which was also taken verbatim from Srila Prabhupada’s Vedabase folio.
June 2, 1977, Vrndavana
Svarupa Damodara: ...this summer and he can come. We can provide free lodging and...
Prabhupada: Yes, everyone should be provided free lodging.
Svarupa Damodara: We can invite about two hundred guests and have a week-long conference.
Prabhupada: If they voluntarily give contribution, that's all right. Otherwise we shall provide. We have got guesthouse. It is very nice. Even they do not pay, we shall pay.
Svarupa Damodara: We can make scientific propaganda. And we can also do the same thing in Bombay. Bombay will be bigger.
Prabhupada: Therefore you have been trained up, (chuckles) for this purpose.
Giriraja: So we drafted a will, including the trust for the properties of India and some of the other...
Prabhupada: Will? Will, there will be direction that "Management should be done like this." That's all.
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Nobody can say in court case that "This temple will be in charge of this person, this temple..."
Ramesvara: Yes, just like you said.
Giriraja: So we've included those points and the points in your brief will. Should I read it?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Giriraja: Then we can type it. "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and disciple of Om Visnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada, presently residing at Sri Krsna-Balarama Mandir in Vrndavana, make this, my last will. 1. The Governing Body Commission, GBC, will be the trustees of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness."
Prabhupada: You can... Then there will be question, "The trust deed will be given? Then there will tax."
Giriraja: No, because the ISKCON trust is already there, and ISKCON is already tax exempt. The only difficulty is if you create a new trust.
Prabhupada: No, no new trust.
Giriraja: No.
Prabhupada: Instead of trustees...
Tamala Krsna: Use a different word.
Prabhupada: Ah!
Ramesvara: Not to apply in trust.
Giriraja: Oh, I see.
Ramesvara: It's a different word.
Prabhupada: Supreme managers.
Gopala Krsna: Supreme managers. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Or the ultimate managers, like that.
Gopala Krsna: The ultimate executives?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, the executors.
Gopala Krsna: Ultimate executors.
Tamala Krsna: Or commissioners. You have...
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes, commissioners.
Tamala Krsna: Commissioner is good, 'cause it's already...
Prabhupada: Use such word.
Tamala Krsna: Use a word that's proper.
Giriraja: Okay.
Tamala Krsna: For now just use one word.
Giriraja: "2: Each temple will be a trust property..."
Prabhupada: Again "trust" word.
Gopala Krsna: Again "ISKCON property."
Giriraja: Okay, we can change that wording.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Giriraja: "...and will be managed by three committee members."
Prabhupada: Hm, yes.
Giriraja: "The system of management will continue as it is now. There is no need of any change. 3. The property in India will be managed by the following committee members: A. Properties at Sri Mayapura Dhama, Panihati, Haridaspur, and Calcutta-Gurukrpa Swami, Jayapataka Swami, Bhavananda Goswami, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; B. At Vrndavana-Gurukrpa Swami, Aksayananda Swami, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; C. At Bombay-Tamala Krsna Goswami, Giriraja dasa Brahmacari, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; D. At Bhuvanesvara-Gaura-Govinda Swami, Jayapataka Swami and Bhagavata dasa Brahmacari; E. At Hyderabad-Mahamsa Swami, Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari, and Bali-mardana dasa Adhikari."
Tamala Krsna: And Sridhara.
Giriraja: "And Sridhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."
Prabhupada: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.
Ramesvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.
Prabhupada: All right. But outside they can do?
Ramesvara: Outside they have...
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja just said that the temple buildings should never be mortgaged. Other buildings might be, but what about the temple buildings? Just like in Los Angeles you have many buildings. The temple building should never be mortgaged, but others may be.
Prabhupada: There is a word, devayatana,(?) Indian. Devayatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)
Tamala Krsna: In America... Just like in New York there's a twelve-thirteen-story building. The temple only occupies the ground floor. They can't mortgage... Sometimes if they want to get other properties, they may want to use the asset of that building. If they have this clause, they won't be able to.
Ramesvara: Also sometimes we have got one property in America, and you have allowed us to sell it. Just like in Miami we had to sell the property in Coconut Grove and we bought that big farm.
Prabhupada: No, with the consent of the GBC...
Gopala Krsna: Consent of the GBC.
Prabhupada: Like that.
Jayapataka: Properties in America can't be sold unless...
Ramesvara: We had a GBC meeting, and we made a system so that there are three GBC men assigned to every American property, and they can't even be mortgaged without the signature of these three men.
Prabhupada: And that declaration should be taken. That you are already taking.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I am in the process of getting them all, oaths of allegiance.
Prabhupada: Hm. Oath of allegiance. That should be maintained.
Ramesvara: So we've already fixed it up for the American temples, with three GBC men assigned to each building, but it hasn't been mentioned in the will.
Prabhupada: No, why not?
Ramesvara: It should be. So we'll have to add a clause...
Prabhupada: Add it.
Ramesvara: ...to deal with the other properties.
Prabhupada: Add it.
Tamala Krsna: Add it right now, Prabhupada says. "Temples outside of India..." That's how it should be worded. "Centers" or "Temples outside of..."
Ramesvara: "Properties outside of India."
Tamala Krsna: "Properties outside of India may only be..." I think we can say, "in principle should not be..."
Prabhupada: There should be inventory of all the properties in this will.
Tamala Krsna: In this will there should be inventory of all properties.
Ramesvara: Now Jayatirtha is getting that, so we can have him send it.
Tamala Krsna: And then the trustees for each of those properties...
Prabhupada: Don't do..., make trustees.
Tamala Krsna: I mean the committee members of each property should be mentioned within this will.
Ramesvara: For all the properties outside the world, all over the world.
Prabhupada: Hm. In-charge. In-charge committee.
Ramesvara: In the world.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada wants this will to be, you know, a very complete document.
Ramesvara: And then, as the time goes by and we buy new properties, we will have to add them to the will.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, give protection.
Ramesvara: "Properties outside of India on principle should never be sold."
Tamala Krsna: So this will will take a little bit of time to get all those lists and everything together. In the meantime we have that other will.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: In the meantime we have that short, brief will. And this may take a little time to...
Ramesvara: Prabhupada said to write this now, so... "Properties outside of India in principle should never be sold."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. "But if the need arises, they may be."
Giriraja: Do we have a list of these?
Tamala Krsna: "If the need arises...
Ramesvara: "They may be sold or mortgaged, etc...."
Tamala Krsna: "By the consent..."
Prabhupada: Hm. Sold or mortgaged, never.
Giriraja: Prabhupada doesn't want us to put in "can be sold or mortgaged..."
Tamala Krsna: What about mortgaged? Just like, as an example, that New York building. They'll... When they pay it off, that building...
Ramesvara: They can get a million-dollar loan.
Tamala Krsna: They can get a loan for a million dollars.
Ramesvara: And buy another building.
Tamala Krsna: Or so many buildings.
Giriraja: But then there's risk.
Prabhupada: Yes. That you consider.
Tamala Krsna: There's risk right now. There's a risk right now.
Ramesvara: The only time they should ever be sold is in some emergency? Why should...?
Prabhupada: With the consent of all the GBC.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, the point is "with the consent of the GBC committee members."
Prabhupada: Better not to be sold.
Ramesvara: We have that. "In principle should never be sold, but if the need arises, they may be sold or mortgaged with the consent of the GBC."
Gopala Krsna: Committee members.
Prabhupada: Outside India.
Ramesvara: Yes, this is outside India.
Tamala Krsna: In India they can never be. It's irrevocable.
Ramesvara: "But if the need arises, they may be sold or mortgaged with the consent of the GBC committee members who are listed as follows."
Tamala Krsna: Then you can say, "The properties and their committee members are listed as follows."
Ramesvara: Right. "The GBC committee members."
Jayapataka: Not all of them. (background talking)
Giriraja: We can put the cities.
Tamala Krsna: Giriraja is suggesting that there's no need to list the address or in details.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Just simply the city.
Ramesvara: We can do that right after we meet with Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, we can do that.
Giriraja: So "...shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred or in any way encumbered, disposed of or alienated."
Tamala Krsna: This is the Indian properties.
Prabhupada: Indian property is devayatana bhavana.
Tamala Krsna: Write that down, dev...
Prabhupada: Devayatana.(?)
Tamala Krsna: Devatra.
Prabhupada: Devayatana. Hm?
Jayapataka: Devayatana means trust. Devayatana means trust.
Prabhupada: All right, don't make if it cannot be so worded(?).
Giriraja: "This direction is irrevocable. 5. I declare, say and confirm that all the properties, both movable and immovable, which stand in my name, including current accounts, saving accounts and fixed deposits in various banks, are the properties and assets of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and the heirs and successors of my previous family or anyone claiming through them have no right, claim or interest in these properties whatsoever save and except as provided hereinafter. Although the money which is in my personal name in every bank is being spent for ISKCON and it will belong to ISKCON, I have kept a few deposits specifically named for allocating a monthly allowance of Rs. 1,000 to the members of my former family-two sons, two daughters, and wife. After the deaths of the members of my former family these specific deposits, or this interest and savings, will become the property of ISKCON for the purpose of the trust, and the descendants of my former family or anyone claiming to be them shall not be allowed any further allowance."
Tamala Krsna: It says that the deposits are "mentioned therein."
Giriraja: No.
Ramesvara: It just says that they are specifically named somewhere.
Giriraja: It's except for these, it's all the deposits of ISKCON. It says. We weren't sure about this, but since Mr. Sharma mentioned it, we put: "I hereby appoint..."-and then we've kept some blank space-"...to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this-blank-day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody. Witnesses, 1., 2., 3."
Tamala Krsna: Dr. Ghosh should be one of the witnesses. According to Mr. Sharma, if a doctor witnesses, it's very good, attending physician.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Giriraja: So what should we do about the clause which appoints the executors?
Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? The people acting to see...
Giriraja: They're responsible to see that the will is carried out.
Ramesvara: They'll see that it's registered and it's brought before the...
Prabhupada: How many executors?
Giriraja: I think he suggested two or three.
Prabhupada: No, he suggested not less than three, up to seven or eleven.
Giriraja: Oh.
Ramesvara: Originally we told him that all the GBC are executors, and he said, "But out of them, just pick a few. It is a technical thing." 'Cause the GBC are already mentioned as the heirs or the managers of what you are giving.
Prabhupada: So I'll give you seven names.
Tamala Krsna: Our idea is to finish this will business as soon as possible.
Prabhupada: Yes, I'll give you tomorrow. I'll think over this.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Any more, Giriraja?
Giriraja: That's all for the will.
Ramesvara: There's one other item that has been recommended by several persons, Prabhupada, and that is the will is only a legal document after the maker of the will has departed, so in the interim period, they have suggested an affidavit for any properties or, say, fixed deposits that are in your personal name, and this affidavit would simply state that the purpose of these fixed deposits and properties is for ISKCON. In that way the government will never be able to exact any taxes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Is there some wording there?
Ramesvara: Do you want me to read it?
Tamala Krsna: If Prabhupada likes.
Ramesvara: So we have prepared an affidavit. Shall we read it?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, disciple of Om Visnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada and settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, at present residing at the Krsna-Balarama Temple in Vrndavana, hereby solemnly declare, say and confirm as follows: 1. That I am the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, known as ISKCON, a society registered under the Society Registration Act of 1860, with its headquarters at Juhu, Bombay, and branches at..." And then it's to be filled in. "2. That some properties with movable and immovable..." What is this word? "...have been donated to me by the devotees of the International Society of Krishna Consciousness or purchased or otherwise acquired by me in my name which still stand in my personal name; 3. That I hereby categorically declare and say that I am just a benamadara (benami) of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness..."
Prabhupada: What is benamadara?
Giriraja: It means... Just like in the Chand Society. Due to some reason we could not take in the beginning in the name of BBT, so we appointed someone to keep in his name, but actually it is not his. He is the only the benamadara on behalf of the society.
Prabhupada: Oh, benamadara.
Ramesvara: "...that I am the benamadara of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness in respect of the said properties, and I hold and do hold these same in trust as a trustee for the said society." No, we take out this phrase, "trust." "...that I hold the same for the said society."
Giriraja: No, "as the Founder-Acarya..."
Ramesvara: "...as the Founder-Acarya; 4. that I further declare, say and confirm that I have no personal claim or interest in these said properties or any..." It says, "position alone...," "...and the same solely belongs to the said society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, absolutely. That which is stated above is true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. Witnessed..." The witnesses swear to that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So if this document is prepared, it does not have to be advertised, but if at any point there is some contention, we can show that this was...
Prabhupada: Made.
Ramesvara: ...made in June of 1977, that this is the...
Prabhupada: Registered.
Ramesvara: Registered. That that is the intention. Mr. Sharma said this will be sufficient to avoid any income tax or other tax on such holdings.
Prabhupada: That I want. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Because sometimes they've said, "Oh, it's in your Guru Maharaja's personal name," and you always said, "It's not my personal money." This will show that.
Prabhupada: Benamadara.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. 'Cause actually, whenever you told us to buy properties, we always wrote your name and then "Founder-Acarya of the International Society for..."
Prabhupada: That's all right. So do it. Manage nicely.
Jayapataka: We had a... Regarding the letter I had written, that ISKCON Food Relief has got some liability at Mayapura.
Prabhupada: No, that you discuss. Don't bother my head.
Jayapataka: No, we just... (Ramesvara whispering)
Ramesvara: Prabhupada, this afternoon we had a meeting of the BBT trustees, and we were discussing the situation of the Bengali printing. There are some manuscripts lying, and we want to print them as soon as possible so that selling can increase.
Prabhupada: So Gopala Krsna, give them money.
Gopala Krsna: I have already given seventy thousand rupees.
Ramesvara: The situation is that the seventy thousand rupees is already invested in Gitar Gans, and all the rest of the money Gopala has...
Jayapataka: Gitar Gans and Bhagavat Darshan and...
Prabhupada: So you are not selling?
Ramesvara: They are.
Prabhupada: Utilize that money. You have taken already seventy thousand. That's all.
Gopala Krsna: It was more than seventy thousand, I think.
Prabhupada: Unlimited, we cannot give you money.
Jayapataka: No, but if we could have fifty thousand more, then we could print the Bhagavad-gita and a few other covers at one time, which would increase the distribution.
Prabhupada: That you consult.
Ramesvara: We considered it carefully, and Jayapataka says that if you have more books available at one time, the people will simply buy four, five, six different books. So it will increase the selling and then collection. Therefore he is requesting a loan.
Prabhupada: Loan, that's all right. Whatever loan you have, let us see how you are paying.
Ramesvara: He is already paying the money back to an account that has been set up with him and Gopala in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: How much he has returned?
Ramesvara: How much have you paid back originally?
Jayapataka: Only one payment has come through. I paid the first thing.
Ramesvara: No, no, no, of the seventy thousand.
Jayapataka: No. Seventy thousand? We have no debt with BBT. We're paid up.
Ramesvara: How much have you paid so far?
Jayapataka: Since April I've paid twenty-one thousand.
Ramesvara: He's already paid twenty-one thousand rupees of it back.
Prabhupada: So you can take fifty thousand also. If they have returned twenty-one thousand, you can pay fifty thousand, loan more.
Gopala Krsna: We can pay fifty thousand...?
Ramesvara: He'll take a loan.
Prabhupada: Give and take, give and take, give and take.
Gopala Krsna: The thing is, I've given them seventy thousand...
Prabhupada: That's all right. They have returned twenty-one thousand.
Gopala Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Then you can pay another fifty thousand. In this way transaction will go on.
Gopala Krsna: At the present moment BBT can't give them so much money.
Prabhupada: So give them something. Twenty-one thousand give them, thirty thousand. Then again... If they are returning, you give them. Give and take, give and take.
Gopala Krsna: But that returning which we are doing, we are putting in a separate Bengali...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is returning.
Ramesvara: Our idea is that from all the money that is collected, we will reinvest in Bengali books.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Ramesvara: So in addition, he wanted to borrow from your own BBT, because Gopala says that all his money is tied up for printing in English and Hindi and the other languages.
Gopala Krsna: At least for six months.
Ramesvara: So that is his request.
Prabhupada: That he can get in September.
Jayapataka: What?
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) Prabhupada said, "In September."
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, I just received a telegram from America about the book selling. It is from our main warehouse in Los Angeles. They report that there has been increase this month over last month. For Back to Godhead the increase has been seventy percent.
Prabhupada: Hm!
Ramesvara: For small books like Perfection of Yoga, it has increased forty-five percent. For medium books like Krsna Trilogy and Isopanisad, it has increased forty-five percent, and for the hardbound books like Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, it has doubled, two hundred percent increase.
Jayapataka: In one month.
Prabhupada: This is very good.
Giriraja: No, that means tripled.
Ramesvara: Two hundred percent increase.
Giriraja: One hundred percent increase is doubled, so two hundred percent...
Tamala Krsna: Tripled. Tripled, the book distribution.
Gopala Krsna: Big books.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Tamala Krsna: Simply by your word, Srila Prabhupada, it is happening.
Ramesvara: Everyone is now wearing these "Double It" buttons. The whole movement is simply thinking of doubling book distribution, doubling it.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is our real mission. Yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. This is the opportunity of speaking the words given by Krsna. Krsna Dvaipayana or Krsna are the same. So that's all right. No more talking.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Radha-vallabha: I'm planning to take it away from him, but I can't find him. I think by the time I return to America...
Prabhupada: It is very convincing.
Radha-vallabha: Yeah.
Prabhupada: "You may pay me six hundred dollars for fifty (indistinct)."
Radha-vallabha: I've been trying to find him. As soon as I find him, I'll bring you the book from him.
Prabhupada: Still paying him money?
Radha-vallabha: No, no, I stopped when you told me in Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Cheats his wife and children, this crooked man, cheating people. Tendency is there. Where he is?
Radha-vallabha: When?
Prabhupada: Where he is now? (end)
DECLARATION OF WILL
Ramanareti, Vrndavana, U.P.
DATE: June 1977
I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder-acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Settlor of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and disciple of Om Visnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaj Prabhupada, presently residing at Sri Krsna-Balarama Mandir in Vrndavana, make this my last will:
1. The Governing Body Commission (GBC) will be the ultimate managing authority of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
2. Each temple will be an ISKCON property and will be managed by three executive directors. The system of management will continue as it is now and there is no need of any change.
3. Properties in India will be managed by the following executive directors:
a) Properties at Sri Mayapur Dhama, Panihati, Haridaspur and Calcutta: Gurukrpa Swami, Jayapataka Swami, Bhavananda Gosvami and Gopal Krsna das Adhikari.
b) Properties at Vrndavana: Gurukrpa Swami, Akshoyananda Swami, and Gopal Krsna das Adhikari.
c) Properties at Bombay: Tamal Krsna Gosvami, Giriraj das Brahmachary, and Gopal Krsna das Adhikari.
d) Properties at Bhuvanesvara: Gour Govinda Swami, Jayapataka Swami, and Bhagawat das Brahmachary.
e) Properties at Hyderabad: Mahamsa Swami, Sridhar Swami, Gopal Krsna das Adhikari and Bali Mardan das Adhikari.
The executive directors who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said directors, a successor director or directors may be appointed by the remaining directors, provided the new director is my initiated disciple following strictly all the rules and regulations of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness as detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three (3) or more than five (5) executive directors acting at one time.
4. I have created, developed, and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such I hereby will that none of the immovable properties standing in the name of ISKCON in India shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred, or in any way encumbered, disposed of, or alienated. This direction is irrevocable.
5. Properties outside of India in principle should never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred or in any way encumbered, disposed of, or alienated, but if the need arises, they may be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, etc., with the consent of the GBC committee members associated with the particular property.
6. The properties outside of India and their associated GBC committee members are as follows:
a) Properties in Chicago, Detroit and Ann Arbor: Jayatirtha das Adhikari, Harikesa Swami, and Balavanta das Adhikari.
b) Properties in Hawaii, Tokyo, Hong Kong: Guru Krpa Swami, Rameswara Swami, and Tamal Krsna Gosvami.
c) Properties in Melbourne, Sydney, Australia Farm: Guru Krpa Swami, Hari Sauri, and Atreya Rsi.
d) Properties in England (London Radlett), France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland and Sweden: Jayatirtha das Adhikari, Bhagavan das Adhikari, Harikesa Swami.
e) Properties in Kenya, Mauritius, South Africa: Jayatirtha das Adhikari, Brahmananda Swami and Atreya Rsi.
f) Properties in Mexico, Venezuela, Brazil, Costa Rica, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Chile: Hrdayananda Gosvami, Panca Dravida Swami, Brahmananda Swami.
g) Properties in Georgetown, Guyana, Santo Domingo, St. Augustine: Adi Kesava Swami, Hrdayananda Gosvami, Panca Dravida Swami.
h) Properties in Vancouver, Seattle, Berkeley, Dallas: Satsvarupa Gosvami, Jagadisa das Adhikari, Jayatirtha das Adhikari.
i) Properties in Los Angeles, Denver, San Diego, Laguna Beach: Rameswara Swami, Satsvarupa Swami, Adi Kesava Swami.
j) Properties in New York, Boston, Puerto Rico, Port Royal, St. Louis, St. Louis Farm: Tamal Krsna Gosvami, Adi Kesava Swami, Rameswara Swami.
k) Properties in Iran: Atreya Rsi, Bhagavan das Adhikari, Brahmananda Swami.
l) Properties in Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Montreal and Ottawa: Rupanuga das Adhikari, Gopal Krsna das Adhikari, Jagadisa das Adhikari.
m) Properties in Pittsburgh, New Vrndavana, Toronto, Cleveland, Buffalo: Kirtanananda Swami, Atreya Rsi, Balavanta das Adhikari.
n) Properties in Atlanta, Tennessee Farm, Gainesville, Miami, New Orleans, Mississippi Farm, Houston: Balavanta das Adhikari, Adi Kesava Swami, Rupanuga das Adhikari.
o) Properties in Fiji: Hari Sauri, Atreya Rsi, Vasudev.
7. I declare, say and confirm that all the properties, both movable and immovable, which stand in my name, including current accounts, savings accounts and fixed deposits in various banks, are the properties and assets of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and the heirs and successors of my previous life, or anyone claiming through them, have no right, claim or interest in these properties whatsoever, save and except as provided hereafter.
8. Although the money which is in my personal name in different banks is being spent for ISKCON and belongs to ISKCON, I have kept a few deposits specifically marked for allocating a monthly allowance of Rs. 1,000/- each to the members of my former family (two sons, two daughters, and wife). After the deaths of the members of my former family, these specific deposits (corpus, interests, and savings) will become the property of ISKCON for the corpus of the trust, and the descendants of my former family or anybody claiming through them shall not be allowed any further allowance.
9. I hereby appoint Guru Krpa Swami, Hrdayananda Gosvami, Tamal Krishna Gosvami, Rameshwar Swami, Gopal Krishna das Adhikari, Jayatirtha das Adhikari and Giriraj das Brahmachary to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this 4th day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody.
Witnesses:
1. (?)
2. Tamal Krishna Goswami
3. Bhagavandas Adhikary
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami