The Authorized Oath of Allegiance
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
excerpts from conversation with GBC, March 27, 1975, Mayapur
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Printer Friendly PageJayatirtha: That's nice. That's nice. So I can go on and read these...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: I hope this isn't, er... Anyway, this is discussing the responsibilities of the GBC men in their zones. So we've already said to organize opening new temples, to appoint temple presidents for new temples, to be responsible for training all temple presidents and insuring spiritual standards. In the case of major deviation or resignation...
Prabhupada: Now, you... First of all, you finish one business. That Oath of Allegiance, so addition, alteration, you have made, complete, so that it may be typed?
Jayatirtha: Satsvarupa is...
Satsvarupa: The only thing we've done is comment that Asnani's form hasn't specified on devotional principles.
Prabhupada: So make addition, alteration, I say. You amongst yourselves.
Tamal Krsna: In other words, add that one must follow four regulative prin...
Satsvarupa: I can just add what Brahmananda Maharaja has.
Prabhupada: So do it amongst yourselves.
Jayatirtha: All right.
Tamal Krsna: Prabhupada wants to finalize.
Prabhupada: Discuss and do it, and make a final...
Tamal Krsna: Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamal Krsna: This Oath of Allegiance is a legal document also, isn't it?
Prabhupada: Eh.
Tamal Krsna: It's both a legal document and a spiritual document.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: Everything we have is spiritual.
Prabhupada: We cannot avoid.
Tamal Krsna: But there must be legal also. That's the point.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: So somebody can read it?
Prabhupada: So next make this final.
Atreya Rsi: I recommend that you put Brahmananda Swami's reco..., on the top part, just...
Prabhupada: Hmmm? What is that?
Atreya Rsi: Brahmananda Swami's proposals, top portion, we'll just add?
Prabhupada: Yes. So whatever you make, addition, alteration, make it copied.
Atreya Rsi: And give it to be typed.
Prabhupada: Don't keep it. Finish one business.
Satsvarupa: So it's just a matter of typing it, then?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Satsvarupa: We can't sign anything now. It's not any...
Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, you are... You make some addition, alteration, to that. So make it complete. Then retype and then sign.
Satsvarupa: Yes. Everyone has agreed on what it should be.
Atreya Rsi: Has everyone agreed?
Madhudvisa: Well, why don't you read it? Why don't you compose it and then let us all see what it says.
Satsvarupa: If I can read it out loud... Can I have the other...?
Brahmananda: We're... Read what the proposal at the top portion...
Madhudvisa: I give Satsvarupa the whole thing in that...(?)
Satsvarupa: All right. So the whole thing, then, would read like... This is a proposal that it should read like this: "I, spiritual name, as initiated disciple, and GBC secretary of His Divine Grace..."
Madhudvisa: Both names should be there.
Atreya Rsi: No, Prabhuji...
Madhudvisa: Spiritual and, and, and legal name...
Atreya Rsi: It should start with this.
Satsvarupa: Well, it's not sure what it should start with. That's it.
Madhudvisa: Both names should be there because a spiritual name is not legal.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamal Krsna: That's a fact.
Jayatirtha: Both names. Good.
Satsvarupa: "...as GBC secretary of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the founder..."
Prabhupada: You... You... You make one copy, your copy, and make addition, alteration, corrections, and then copy the same thing for other men. That will be easier.
Satsvarupa: All right.
Prabhupada: You... You just fill up one copy, as you are doing. So make addition, alteration, your name, your spiritual name, everything complete. So, following that copy, others will do. Is that all right?
Atreya Rsi: I recommend that we keep this one.
Prabhupada: Or you can make... Anyone, you can take.
Atreya Rsi: In this shape.
Prabhupada: You, you can make addition, alteration, everything, and read it complete. Then take that proposal. That's all.
Jayatirtha: So maybe, Atreya Rsi, you can write out a final draft of it...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: ...including both things, and then you can read it to everyone.
Atreya Rsi: Where's Brahmananda Swami?
Jayatirtha: Is that all right? Should we go on while he's writing?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: We can go on.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: The main purpose of these points is simply to try to put it down in writing what the GBC man can do himself, what things he requires—the whole group—what things he requires to consult with others on, in this way, so there won't be any question "What I can do, what I can't do." Is that all right?
Tamal Krsna: Yes.
Jayatirtha: O.K. [Reading] "To insure that the highest standards, including spiritual temple worship, sankirtan propaganda, recruitment of new devotees and life members, financial management and repayment of all debts are being adhered to."
Prabhupada: Why debts? Debts should be avoided. Not payment, but one should not make debt.
Jayatirtha: But that... All temples... All the temples are in debt.
Prabhupada: Why? That's not... Debts are very wrong.
Jayatirtha: Either they owe BBT money or they owe bank money.
Prabhupada: That is not good. Debts should be... No debts. If any temple wants to make debt, it must be sanctioned by the GBC committee.
Jayatirtha: Yes.
Prabhupada: Make it clear.
Jayatirtha: That's nice.
Prabhupada: Not that he whimsically, the president, and put the Society into debts, unless it is sanctioned.
Jayatirtha: That's included in here, more or, more or less.
Prabhupada: Make it clear: "They cannot create any debt."
Jayatirtha: Just like to come to this festival has put everyone in debt.
Prabhupada: That is risky. That is risky.
Rupanuga: Be very specific about it.
Jayatirtha: Right. The next point is to insure...
Atreya Rsi: Let me just make sure this is understood. Any, any debts that any temple has, is going to make, has to be approved by the GBC representative.
Tamal Krsna: When you say debt, do you mean a loan?
Atreya Rsi: Loan.
Tamal Krsna: Ah.
Atreya Rsi: But...
Prabhupada: Loan is also debt.
Atreya Rsi: Yes. But if they are buying BBT books, if... On the books it may seem debt, but in fact he should know that he's going to pay for it in the very near future. That you do not consider need approval, do you, Srila Prabhupada?
Jayatirtha: The books are sold on consignment.
Prabhupada: No, and that is all right. That is all right.
Jayatirtha: If they fall behind, then it becomes a debt.
Tamal Krsna: That's different. Thirty days pay...
Atreya Rsi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Atreya Rsi: As soon as it goes over the term, it's unapproved.
Tamal Krsna: Then a loan where you're paying on time, is that considered a debt?
Atreya Rsi: Yes. That's a loan. That has to be approved. That has to be, as much as possible, avoided. In other words, everything you're doing, more or less, on cash basis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: You don't depend on tomorrow.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.
Atreya Rsi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.
Jayatirtha: That's right.
Prabhupada: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.
Jayatirtha: Yeah, that, we'll... The next point is to insure that the proper criterion for recommending candidates for initiation be followed...
Prabhupada: That is being done.
Jayatirtha: ...and to insure that the...
Prabhupada: The president recommends, or the GBC recommends.
Tamal Krsna: Is there any fixed amount of time that one has to be in the Society to get first, hari-nama, initiated? Because I...
Prabhupada: That we have already fixed, six months to one year.
Tamal Krsna: Six months to one year. And for brahmana initiation?
Rupanuga: One year, you said, after that.
Prabhupada: No, within one year. That's all. If one, within one year, one does not become to the standard, then he's unfit.
Atreya Rsi: The recommendation here, Srila Prabhupada, is that...
Prabhupada: Generally by the president.
Atreya Rsi: Yes, that the president's recommendation is overseeing, is scrutinized, by GBC, so that when Your Divine Grace gets a recommendation, it's been, by someone else, it's been checked. Do you think it's unnecessary?
Prabhupada: It is.
Atreya Rsi: Unnecessary. Jaya Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: If one is not personally sincere, however he is checked...
Atreya Rsi: Yes, so this is unnecessary.
Prabhupada: ...then he's useless. Useless.
Atreya Rsi: In other words, an addition, "directly," directly... You know we just have to put down what Prabhupada... Directly president can...
Prabhupada: Generally, it is one year after.
Atreya Rsi: Put it down.
Jayatirtha: Right, right.
Prabhupada: At least not for...
Atreya Rsi: Jayatirtha, put... "Directly goes..."
Rupanuga: Srila Prabhupada, after first initiation, one has to wait one year to get second initiation?
Prabhupada: Six months.
Rupanuga: At least six months.
Jayatirtha: Six months after first initiation. All right. So the next role for the GBC man is to act as the designated representative of Srila Prabhupada to settle all philosophic, procedural disputes which may arise and are not settled at the temple level. In other words, any philosophic question a temple president can't answer...
Prabhupada: No, you... Eh?
Jayatirtha: If there's some philosophic question and the temple president can't answer it, then the GBC...
Prabhupada: Then GBC should be consulted. And if the GBC cannot answer, then I'll answer.
Jayatirtha: Right. Or, if there's some quarrel—one man doesn't like another man, and the temple president can't solve it—then...
Prabhupada: What is quarrel?
Jayatirtha: ...the GBC man can solve it.
Prabhupada: There is no question of quarrel. Quarrel is material.
Jayatirtha: Yes. But it is the Age of Quarrel.
Prabhupada: Quarrel is not good.
Jayatirtha: The next point is to obtain reports from the temple presidents, financial reports, like this, to see that things are being looked up.
Prabhupada: The general report should be submitted at least monthly.
Jayatirtha: Yes. So "to obtain all reports on a timely basis..."
Prabhupada: To the board of the GBC or to the individual, zonal GBC. Yes.
Jayatirtha: We have kind of a system outlined in here, how reports can be done. It's a technical thing, but...
Prabhupada: But they have that everyone is chanting sixteen rounds, everyone is following the principles, "so much money received, so much money deposited in the bank."
Jayatirtha: Right.
Prabhupada: "And this is the balance." And these are general report. That's all.
Jayatirtha: Right. Yeah, we have...
Prabhupada: The financial means what they have collected, what they have spent.
Jayatirtha: Right.
Prabhupada: And general reporting: "Yes, everyone is chanting," or "He is not chanting in spite of warning," like that.
Jayatirtha: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is very good.
Jayatirtha: So we have some guidelines in here about that. So, so should I go on with this?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Jayatirtha: So then the next thing, besides having a zonal responsibility, a GBC man may have a functional responsibility, like we've already discussed.
Prabhupada: Functional, main functional responsibility is to go and see that the temple regular work is going on, the president is doing nicely, to check in this way. You can sit down in the class, in the..., and see how things are going on. That's it.
...
Prabhupada: I think this Oath of Allegiance should be signed by the presidents also.
Jayatirtha: That's nice.
Tamal Krsna: Also.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamal Krsna: Also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Not only the GBC, but the president.
...
Jayatirtha: So the... There are a number of points that require discussion...
Prabhupada: So discuss...
Jayatirtha: I don't know, necessarily, that it's your desire to have them discussed in your presence or, for example...
Prabhupada: No, I don't want, but if you want, you can...
Jayatirtha: Well, we always love to have your association, Srila Prabhupada.
Rupanuga: What about if you, at least, can approve the agenda?
Jayatirtha: Yes, that's nice.
Rupanuga: If you can give us your blessings...
Prabhupada: That you discuss, some of the agenda.
Jayatirtha: The agenda that we've created so far is... The first point on the agenda is how to become Krishna conscious.
Prabhupada: Chant Hare Krishna.
Jayatirtha: Yes. You said that that should be our first point.
Prabhupada: Krishna conscious movement means... It is very practical. Because our consciousness is now polluted... Just like water. Water, originally, crystal clear water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes dirty, muddy. So our consciousness—originally clear, Krishna consciousness: "Krishna is my eternal master. I am eternal servant." This is real consciousness. Now, since we have come into this material world, we have made, instead of Krishna, "My wife is my master, my society is my master, my country is my master, my political leader is my master," so many. So the Krishna consciousness means to purify the dirty things and then... So, to purify this, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has recommended, cheto-darpana-marjanam [Chaitanya-charitamrita Antya 20.12], cleaning the mirror of consciousness, this Hare Krishna mantra. This is only way.
Jayatirtha: Jaya. So that's the first point.
Prabhupada: That is the first point.
Jayatirtha: And the next point ...
Prabhupada: We should know that our consciousness is now polluted. The... Exactly like this: Clear water falls down from the sky, and as soon as come in contact with the ground, it becomes muddy. You can take the water again and filter, and then again clear. Again crystal clear.
Jayatirtha: By nature water is clear.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: And sometimes it can become polluted.
Prabhupada: And the whole devotional service means cheto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. That is the recommendation of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, cleansing the dirty—politically, socially, communally, and internationally, nationally... In this way, it is all contaminated. So that, that is called upadhi, unnecessary. Just like water. You bring the colored water. That is contamination, not crystal. So these are different colors. So you have to strain the water from different colors. Then that is Krishna consciousness. Consciousness is already there. So instead of thinking Krishna, that "I am Krishna's," I am thinking, "I am my family's. I am my, my cat's, my dog's, my nation's, my community's..." This thinking is opposite Krishna consciousness. And when you simply think that "I am Krishna's," that's all. That is all.
Hansadutta: Yeah.
Jayatirtha: So, so the agenda...
Prabhupada: Is that all right?
Devotees: Jaya.
Atreya Rsi: Just applicable to myself, it's very easy to think that "Now I am in a position of responsibility. I may be most advanced." But what your instruction is that I always think that this position of responsibility requires that I become pure, so I have to be very, very careful. I am not most advanced. I have to...
Prabhupada: That purity process is chanting.
Atreya Rsi: I have to chant very carefully...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: ...and very seriously.
Prabhupada: Offenseless.
Atreya Rsi: Not that I'm already advanced.
Prabhupada: Offenseless chanting, that will purify. That is the easiest process, given by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Cheto-darpana-marjanam. He first of all recommends cleansing the heart. And as soon as your heart is cleansed, then you become immediately purified. This is the way. So be always engaged, either in chanting or reading or preaching. Then it will be clarified.
Rupanuga: It is actually a very easy process.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is the easiest process. There is no secondary process. Chanting. And it is recommended by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the authority, param vijayate sri-krishna-sankirtanam. So many things will happen.
cheto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam
shreyah-kairava chandrika-vitaranam vidya-vadhu-jivanam
anandambudhi- vardhanam prati-padam purnamritasvadanam
(sarvatma-snapanam) param vijayate sri-krishna-sankirtanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]
This is His recommendation. We haven't got to invent something. It is there already. You do it.
...
Atreya Rsi: The pledge. Should I read the pledge? I have written it.
...
Atreya Rsi: Put the pledge on the agenda, Prabhu.
Jayatirtha: You want to read that pledge?
Atreya Rsi: You want me to read it, Prabhu?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes.
Jayatirtha: I think so.
Prabhupada: Everyone may hear.
Atreya Rsi: I... The same pledge, that the Indian gentleman has written, where it says, "Prabhupada, I, Mr. So and So, karmi name, initiated name in parenthesis, date of birth, at present residing at, of certain nationality, do hereby solemnly affirm, declare and state as under as follows: I state I have been elected or nominated a member of Governing Body Commission, under the recommendation of my Guru Maharaja, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder and Acharya of Krishna Consciousness Movement..."
Rupanuga: Supreme Authority.
Atreya Rsi: Shall I...
Satsvarupa: Yes, Prabhupada wanted it...
Rupanuga: Acharya and supreme authority.
Atreya Rsi: It's down... There as well?
Jayatirtha: There as well.
Rupanuga: Everywhere. Everywhere.
Atreya Rsi: "Acharya and..., of Krishna consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Maharaja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Krishna that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which,"—and this has been added—"which have been given, including four regulative principles..."
Madhudvisa: They should be stated too.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Madhudvisa: The four regulative principles should be stated.
Prabhupada: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.
Madhudvisa: We know it, but does someone else know it?
Prabhupada: Is it necessary to mention?
Rupanuga: It's a legal document also.
Bhagavan: Yeah, it should be mentioned.
Prabhupada: Mentioned? Mention.
Rupanuga: If it was in parentheses, it would be better for a legal document.
Jayatirtha: That's not a legal document.
Rupanuga: It's a legal document. This is a legal document.
Atreya Rsi: "And chanting sixteen rounds very seriously."
Madhudvisa: Daily.
Atreya Rsi: "Daily."
Madhudvisa: At least.
Brahmananda: And free from the offenses.
Hansadutta: We have to take some...
Jayatirtha: Who's chanting free from the offenses?
Prabhupada: No, no, don't...
Atreya Rsi: "Very seriously" is all I can say.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, do that.
Atreya Rsi: I cannot say "free of offenses." Because...
Prabhupada: "Seriously" means without offense.
Atreya Rsi: ...I am degraded. "Very seriously, or may be given to me from time to time directly, these directions, by my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, or through his books, or..." In other words, direction given, instruction given, directly by him or through his...
Prabhupada: Better directly.
Atreya Rsi: No "His books"?
Prabhupada: No.
Atreya Rsi: Not necessary.
Prabhupada: Because I may give direction according to the time.
Atreya Rsi: "Or" means both.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Atreya Rsi: "Or" can mean... All right. "Or through his commissioners..."
Prabhupada: Direct, direct instruction is important. Just like Krishna. In the books He has given many instructions, but then He says, sarva-dharman parityaja. If one says that "You gave me instruction before like this. How can I give up this?" so that is not important. The direct instruction is important.
Atreya Rsi: "To me from time to time directly by my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, or through his commissioner..."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: "Or through his authorized person or persons, and I shall obey faithfully all such instructions and directions which shall be, which shall be binding on me, and that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of my Guru Maharaja, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, and the managing body commission and, or, any other body appointed by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada working under the said International Society for Krishna Consciousness. And I shall faithfully discharge the duty upon which I am about to enter or I have already appointed to that effect." Now this is an addition. "I further pledge that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami is the only source of authority, represented by his instructions and books, and I shall follow his instructions, I shall follow the instructions of the books..."
Madhudvisa: Only these books.
Atreya Rsi: "Only these books" Rather than "I will not follow any other book."
Prabhupada: No, why you'll put? [laughs] This is...?
Atreya Rsi: It's not...?
Prabhupada: This is required?
Rupanuga: You mean the part about the books, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Rupanuga: You mean the part about the books?
Hansadutta: It's already said that you're his direct instructions.
Atreya Rsi: This is to protect, like, if somebody chanting sixteen rounds...
Hansadutta: It's redundant.
Madhudvisa: Well, I thought if someone was chanting sixteen rounds and following the principles and reading someone else's books, like Siddha-svarupa's people...
Hansadutta: Yeah, but we've just already read one portion where it says that we will follow direct instructions of Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Hansadutta: So again he's repeating it.
Prabhupada: Instruction, follow that.
Atreya Rsi: So then it's not necessary about this "only" sort part of...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: What if there is no direct instruction?
Prabhupada: Yes. I don't think that part is anymore important.
Atreya Rsi: "I further state that I am holding monies and movable and immovable..."
Prabhupada: No, why he's...? He's not holding money, GBC.
Atreya Rsi: So this I'll take out.
Prabhupada: No, GBC, practically does not hold any money.
Atreya Rsi: No.
Prabhupada: Then why you...?
Hansadutta: You can say, "Any monies or properties under my direction..."
Jayatirtha: That's what it should say.
Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?
Hansadutta: Under, under his direction. Any monies or properties under his direction.
Atreya Rsi: That would be a separate oath. That would be a separate thing, Prabhupada.
Hansadutta: Maybe that should just be left out because if we're going to have some legal document like an umbrella, then that will take care of all those things.
Atreya Rsi: Well, that should be in the pledge, in the agenda.
Prabhupada: No, no, GBC... Does GBC members deal with money?
Hansadutta: No, he does not personally. He doesn't have anything personal.
Prabhupada: No, no. I mean...
Brahmananda: But he puts his signature.
Atreya Rsi: No, no. As GBC, we do not deal with money. In other words, if you're dealing with money, it's the temple president.
Prabhupada: The GBC...
Atreya Rsi: Not as...
Prabhupada: The GBC should see that it is being done properly. Why he should...?
Hansadutta: But sometimes it...
Prabhupada: ...involve himself in the...
Rupanuga: Well, for example, in New York...
Prabhupada: ...internal management?
Rupanuga: Well, in New York, for example, I just recently signed with Gopi-jana-vallabha Prabhu the papers on the farm. I signed conjointly with him on the farm because the officers had to sign, and we just recently had a thing in New York, ISKCON, Los Angeles, New York.
Prabhupada: No, no, "sign" another thing. That I have signed, many.
Rupanuga: So that's all right.
Prabhupada: The one thing is that GBC is wandering. If the checks are to be signed, then where is the GBC?
Rupanuga: There's no account, no GBC account.
Prabhupada: The... The money matters should be dealt with the president, secretary and the treasurer, three men. Out of three, two should sign. And GBC's business is to see that things are going on, money matters. That's all. GBC is not supposed to deal directly. He has to inspect. That's all.
Atreya Rsi: So I can cross this...
Prabhupada: Just like... But the thing is, if the GBC and the president is the same man, that is not good. That is not good. The president should be separate. So the president, treasurer and secretary, they will deal directly, and GBC should inspect book, account, that it is done very nicely. That's all. You can question, "Why you have done this?" That's nice. Otherwise, in the..., it will be difficult to manage.
Rupanuga: Yes. We don't want to become entangled in that money.
Prabhupada: Ah!
Rupanuga: We don't want to become entangled in that money.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Madhudvisa: What controls? What controls in the matter of money then?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Madhudvisa: Who has control of the money?
Prabhupada: Control means if there is vigilant, I mean to say, examination, inspection, then there is control of money.
Madhudvisa: Well, let's say someone gives the temple president some money, and he puts in an account with his name and the treasurer's name, and they both conspire and take the money. Then there's no...
Prabhupada: Yes. That you can do also.
Atreya Rsi: Anyway...
Madhudvisa: Yes, but...
Prabhupada: GBC can do also.
Madhudvisa: But isn't the GBC supposed to be more trusted than the temple president?
Prabhupada: Then everyone can do, who has got the...
Bhagavan: The BBT trustees did it.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bhagavan: The BBT trustees also did it. They took unsanctioned loan from the BBT.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Tamal Krsna: Prabhupada, what about in a case like myself. I'm a sannyasi, and I have a traveling sankirtan party. So can I handle that money?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Tamal Krsna: I'm a sannyasi with a travelling preaching party. So I have no... Because I am personally seeing to the money, tbere's no debt on that party. Is that all right?
Prabhupada: That you decide amongst the GBC. [laughter] Best thing is that don't keep money.
Tamal Krsna: No, I have no money in my name.
Prabhupada: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.
Tamal Krsna: Yeah, yeah. We're doing... I meant to say...
Atreya Rsi: Srila Prabhupada is...
Prabhupada: Sannyasi is collecting and spending.
Atreya Rsi: There you have a function of, more or less of a president, as well as the GBC, in that party.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Atreya Rsi: Which is... In that case, it has to have GBC approval.
Prabhupada: So...
Jayatirtha: So we can adjourn for lunch and...
Prabhupada: Yes, you can... Till next we meet again.
Jayatirtha: So the rest of these things we can discuss in...
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, yes.
Jayatirtha: ...separate meeting.
Prabhupada: Yes. You can...
Rupanuga: Jaya. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Replies
ISKCON OATH OF ALLEGIANCE
"That Oath of Allegiance. That should be maintained. See that it is typed up and copies are sent to every Temple President and GBC."
Tamal Krsna Goswami responded "I am doing that Srila Prabhupada".
The reality was of course something else. To this day - this Oath of Allegiance has remained largely unknown. It speaks volumes to each of us and its implementation will effectively alter much that is now unwanted in Srila Prabhupada's mission. I again offer it for the pleasure of all the devotees.
ISKCON OATH OF ALLEGIANCE --- Dictated by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada to the GBC on March 27th 1975 and ordered by him to be sent to all Officers throughout his ISKCON.
I ...enter legal name and then initiated name - date of birth at present residing at, particular nationality (i.e. American, German etc) do hear by solemnly affirm, declare and state as under as follows: I state I have been elected or nominated a member of the Governing Body Commission/or Temple President - under the recommendation of my Guru Maharaja His Divine Grace AC BSP , Founder, Acharya and Supreme Authority of the Krsna Consciousness Movement, under the banner of the ISKCON. I state I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, with the result he is the sole responsible person and Supreme Authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the ISKCON. I, the said - enter legal and initiated name - do hear by swear in the name of Krsna that I will bear truth and alliance to the Constitution, by laws, rules and regulations and directives which have been given, including the 4 regulative principles (listed) chanting of 16 rounds very seriously or directions given me directly by my aforesaid Guru Maharaja, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, or through his authorized person or persons, and I shall obey faithfully all instructions and directions, which shall be binding on me and that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of my Guru Maharaja His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada and the managing body commission and or any other body appointed by His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada, working under the said International Society for Krsna Consciousness and I shall faithfully discharge the duty upon which I am about to enter or have already been appointed to that effect. I further pledge that His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada is the only source of authority, represented by his instructions and books and I shall follow his instructions and I shall follow the instructions only - of these books."
Oath of Allegiance to ISKCON
USA (VNN) - Letters from the Internet (see also VNN story# 1746) 04/19/98 - 1751
To: news@chakra.org
Subject: Oath of Allegiance to ISKCON
Dear Editors of Chakra,
My obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I have just read the GBC report for this year, it's various laws and goals, and new implementations for our Society. What caught my personal attention was the recently formed oath of Allegiance to ISKCON.
It is a concern for me, because Grandfather Bhisma also took an oath to SEE WHOEVER SAT ON THE THRONE OF HASTINAPURA AS QUALIFIED AS HIS FATHER. This was a great mistake, because HIS OATH OF ALLEGIANCE implicated him to fight on the side of ADHARMA.
Who is to say that, those in positions of authority, shall not become deviant, or corrupt, and shall out of attachment and envy, become like King Dhrtarastra, and his son Duryodhana. With such an oath, part of ISKCON law, we also would become implicated to support people, who could also prove as unworthy as Duryodhana and his blind father. I do not agree with such an oath. I feel that if we as devotees, become aware of a person's character, as bad, and this person has a seat of authority, then it is up to us to, demand such a person be removed from his post. Not that we should blindly vow to support by our oath, anyone who may sit in the seat of the GBC. GOOD QUALIFICATIONS, SPOTLESS CHARACTER, AND PURITY need no OATH to support. We voluntarily will support a person who is pure. Srila Prabhupada, we support and continue to support because of his PURITY.
I think we are mixing POLITICS WITH SPIRITUALITY, and therefore putting sand in the sweet rice. My vow of allegiance is to spiritual purity, wherever I may find it. I do not want to be implicated in vowing my support blindly to persons, who may fall down.
I sent my son to Vrindavan Gurukula, blindly without checking to see if his teachers had the necessary qualifications. I learned my lesson of blind following the HARD WAY. I will not make the same mistake as Grandfather Bhisma, nor will I blindly agree to this same idea proposed by the GBC. Our vow is not to support a POSITION, BUT TO SUPPORT TRUTH AND PURITY. There is a DIFFERENCE.
Please let me know what your thoughts are on the above post. I personally feel this way, because of my experiences, level of knowledge, and understanding. I would like to know why such an oath of allegiance has been manufactured? Who are we trying to protect? TRUTH AND PURITY stand on their own merit, and command respect, and allegiance. They do not demand or legislate it. Then it becomes POLITICS.
Srila Prabhupada stated that religion and politics don't mix. But this is exactly what I see happening. As Chakra is a news friendly website, ready to hear the voice of all its members, I appeal to Chakra as a member of ISKCON, to hear my voice, as I feel such a new law as taking a vow of allegiance, was made without properly taking into consideration the result of such a proposal. I do not want to find myself in the same position as Grandfather Bhisma and support wrong ideas.
Spiritual life is VOLUNTARY. It is not LEGISLATED. Even King Yudhisthira, at the beginning of the battle of Kuruksetra, asked if there was anyone on Duryodhana's side who thought TRUTH AND DHARMA was with the Pandavas. King Yudhisthira invited those on Duryodhana's side to come to join him and the Pandavas if they felt that TRUTH WAS ON THEIR SIDE. Also King Yudhisthira announced to his own army, that if there was anyone who thought TRUTH WAS ON DURYODHANA'S SIDE, then any soldier was free to enter Duryodhana's camp.
We should take example from this great soul, and RESPECT THE INDIVIDUALS RIGHT OF FREE CHOICE to support what they choose. Force and legislation are not a part of our spiritual heritage, and is not supported by our founder A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. I am disappointed with the idea of such an allegiance, because it could implicate devotees into supporting crime and deviation, as history has already clearly showed us, by GRANDFATHER BHISMA'S MISTAKE. and our own ISKCON EXPERIENCE.
Please consider the above. Please let me know, how do I make my concern known to the GBC.? Although an ant, in this movement, I also carry a grain of sand. Please help me in this regard. Hoping to hear from you soon, on this important matter.
Your servant,
Pracetana dasi
Dear Prabhus
PAMHO AGTSP!
When Srila Prabhupada was present, we swore an oath to follow all of the four rules and chant 16 rounds as His disciples.
This was (at that time) an oath to ISKCON, since ISKCON was non-different from Srila Prabhupada.
By creating the "guru deviation" the foolish GBC have now created a loyalty disaster!
If the loyalty naturally generated from the initiation process has become splayed into hundreds of barely maintainable loyalty camps, then they come to the soggy, chilly realization that there is no loyalty left for ISKCON.
ISKCON IS SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BODY!
Having deviated ALL loyalty away from Srila Prabhupadas (except as a "siksa" figurehead talisman status) they now find to their surprise that there is no loyalty left for SRILA PRABHUPADA'S BODY.
Hence the "loyalty oath".
I was raised in the 1950's with the McCarthy era and the "loyalty oath" of that time.
Whoever did not sign it could not get any government job, or any other job for that matter.
Obviously, the oath did not increase ANYBODY'S loyalty.
It was simply a device to weed out anyone with an ounce of patriotism or respect for first amendment rights. The "oath" ushered in an era of what were very accurately described as "witch hunts", which is the only reason for such an oath in the first place.
HITLER'S SS ALSO MADE IT'S MEMBERS SWEAR SUCH AN OATH.
Such an oath preceeds social collapse. Hopefully when they collapse, gurus oath and all, they will not destroy anything but themselves.
Your eternal servant,
Nara Narayan Vishwakarma das
Re: Oath of Allegiance to ISKCON
Dear Prabhus,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada Please accept my humble obeisances.
It is interesting that this question of Oath of Allegience has come up. From what I understand from reading the conversations with Srila Prabupada, an Oath of Allegiance was to be taken by the GBC and included an outlining of their duties to check that spiritual progress was being made in the temples under their management, making sure devotees were chanting their rounds and following the four regs. Also they should see to it that debts are not incurred and assist the temple presidents. It is/was a suggested outline of their duties. It was not only considered a spiritual document but a legal one as well. Prabhus, please check out the conversation with Srila Prabhupada entitled Conversation with the GBC March 27, 1975, Mayapur. Srila Prabupada mentions also in a letter that he has the oath of allegiance of one of his disciples who has misapporopriated funds and that the oath can be used in prosecution of said disciple. "Regarding Manasvi, you should immediately prosecute. The charge should be Breach of Trust and Misappropriation of Funds. I have received today the Oath of Allegiance duly signed by him and notarized. When required it will be supplied to you. Therefore I wanted this declaration. Immediately prosecute." Srila Prabhupada Letter to: Paramahamsa: Vrindaban 4 September, 1975
I would like to hear if any one knows if these oaths of allegiance have been used to recapture the large sums of monies taken by those who have left Srila Prabhupada's movement and if not, why not? Also, have they been used to curtail debt and misappropriation of funds? Again if not why not?
Why not use these oaths of allegiance now to hold those responsible for the selling of the many properties that belonged to Srila Prabupada (ie NYC's Sri Sri Radha Govinda's 55th St temple).
Too often I have seen legal threats made against honest devotees who want to spread Srila Prabuhpada's mission but where lies the legal responsibilty for those who have made disasterous decisions with Srila Prabupada's assets?
Did the GBC's in 1977 take an oath of allegiance (or a vow to Srila Prabhupada as it were)? Are they taking the same one approved by Srila Prabhupada now and following it?
The kind of twisting of Srila Prabhupada's instructions [that is going on today] just burns me up.
ys, Krsna Prema dd
Hare Krishna.
Please accept my humble obeisnaces. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
On the subject matter of pledging allegiance to Iskcon. This has got to be the work of a demoniac mind. No where in any of Srila Prabhupada's books does he demand allegiance to Iskcon. We are voluntarily giving of our allegiance to the Absolute Truth. Which resides in the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, Chaitanya Caritamrita and in the words of our Spiritual Masters. Where does it say that an oath of allegiance must be made to an institution? Show me!!! This is the work of a demon looking to control the hearts and minds of others. Nothing more. If the leadership of Iskcon must resort to this low class tactic and can not instill purely the dedication and allegiance of it's followers then it is not fit to lead.
It is the death knell of a spititual organization. As soon as the leadership sees the necessity of forcing allegiance to it's so-called organization then it is on it's way down to the deepest darkest regions of hell. For once this process becomes a part of the institutions hierarchy then the misuse and abuse of its members becomes more and more cruel and inhuman. This desire of the leadership of Iskcon is a sign of their desperation. They are losing control and instead of leading by example they are leading by coercion.
I have heard and seen the bad example of our leadership. When compared to the life and activities of the great and stalwart saints both present and past, they are an embarrassment to the society of vaishnavas. I hope and pray every day that the path which our leadership is on will become rectified by the loud crys of the real stalwarts of devotional life.
Anyone who out of sentiment and blind following chants the glories of pledging our allegiance to Iskcon is subject to extreme scrutiny. Their very existence is a hindrance to the pure path of bhakti yoga. No amount of legislation or coercion will bring about the transformation of the heart. One must delve deeply within ones own heart and carefully and slowly remove the material desires which prevent the heart from being a suitable resting place for the Supreme Lord.
If someone asks your to pledge your allegiance to Iskcon, run as fast as you can from such a person or defeat him or her with the logic of the revealed scriptures.
Please I beg of you all who still have your intellect in tact do not allow yourselves to be seduced by this lure of satans trickery.
Gary
Dear Pracetana dasi,
Haribol! I am an editor of Hare Krishna World and Priti-laksanam, and a loyal citizen of ISKCON. I got your letter to Chakra about an oath of allegience.
I couldn't agree with you more! I hope purity, reason, and humility prevail on the part of our leadership. I mistrust people who ask us to be loyal to them and then are themselves not accountable to us.
YS, Kunti d.d.
PS May I print your letter in Priti-laksanam? It is seem by some of the GBC and other leaders, as well as many others. It is an internal journal started by Pranada dasi.
Oath of Allegiance to Jayapotatoe Swami
Jayapataka Swami's disciples "Oath of allegiance"
"I hereby solemnly make the following vows: I accept Srila Jayapataka Swami to be my initiating (diksa) and instructing (siksa) spiritual master (Guru) forever, even life after life".
All Glories to Iskcon Bangalore. All Glories to Madhu Pandit. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
(based on where he is 'going', after Yamaraja sends him on his way, do you really think even his most fanatic cheerleaders, after a short view of him in hell, will ever run into him again, throughout eternity? what are the odds?). Jayadvaita& Hridayananda, ("Acharyadeva"), are 'featured'."
Comment: WOW -- this is really good news. In our NEXT lives we will not see these folks again, because they all will follow Jayapotatoe into Hell. Great news indeed.
If you make a pact with the devil, he will ask to give your life to him. Jayapataka is worst than the devil, because he demands life after life, which not even the devil is asking. Is this black magic or what?
When getting initiated by an ISKCON guru, again, let them sign a contract.
So, what happens, only people sign such a contract who consider that they can somehow materially exploit the situation. Those who are actually devotees will not consider this as a genuine spiritual movement. Remember when Prabhupada made people to chant Hare Krishna, now, what would have happened when saying, I have written a contract, in case you consider to join, could you lease sign this contract?
Our current oath form is not the same word for word, but is exactly the same in items and intent, so we are pleased with our current oath format, and reluctant to part with it, frankly. It may be viewed by perspective candidates for initiation, otherwise one is sent to all new initiates to sign, currently.