Ashtara Command ; the Dave and Ranacora open discussion

[Welcome]

Comment by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer 18 minutes ago

 

If you open your heart, you will feel the sweetness of love in seperation from the spiritual master by listening to George's production below.  >;  )   Love of Srila Prabhupada is love of Godhead, also, same.  "guru krsna prasade  bhakti lata bija..." ie  By grace of God one gets Guru, and by grace of Guru one gets God. Same, different aspects or phases, or as we call it, "pastimes". These pastimes epitomize certain tastes or flavors or rasas, and generation /realization of pure rasa is the meaning of bhakti-yoga perfection.

Srila Prabhupada was prophesied by Sri Krsna Caitanya Himself some 550 years ago. There is a long chain of events going back demonstrably thousands of years, that lead up to his teachings to us. Prabhupada is not an ordinary guru. He is one in a billion. See https://puredevoteeseva.ning.com/ for many videos and articles etc on this topic. There is no charge, just an awakened heart and/or a tear of sincerity somewhere in there.

 

Ah, i see Dave has replied. Thank you, Bhaka the Dave, peace and all that is desirable to you, my friend. Your stories are magical, and coincidental with the quote from Radha Govinda Swami. Synchronicity always smells like Krsna, to me ! This story needed to be heard, we shall try to pass it down in our new gospels according to the devotees in Prabhupada's era.

 

 

 

Comment by the dave 26 minutes ago

Thank you for the replies, Tamohara and Ranacora.I've read through them, and I will read them again closer and consider the points you make. In the meantime, if I may, I did have a surreal experience involving Srila Prabhupada's words - and just to be clear - I know many Krsna members - and have spent time in many ISKCON centers, alwaya as a guest, however.

 

But, about 15 - 20 years ago - I had been reading the book Life Comes from Life - which was discussions Prabhupada would have while taking a morning walk with others. One of the things he said somewhere was when you comes across a wild dog who seems intent on attacking you, by saying HUT HUT HUT you will keep him away. I was taking a walk on my own one day and was thinking about Prabhupadas walks and some of the things he said in that book, such as the part about the dog - and I came to a park - where a crazy dog started barking like mad and threatening to attack me. It was the closest I've ever come to being attacked by a dog, and he seemed extra mean. Even the owner was there but could not get him under control. The owner later said that never happened before. - But I remembered what Prabhupada said - and was constantly yelling hut hut hut at the dog. He would lunge at me, very close and very mean  - and I would stand there and loudly yell the hut hut hut and he would back off for a moment then come again. It went on for what seemed like 10 minutes or more - and whenever he was close to reaching me - I was able to keep him away. The owner apologized and said it was so weird - that it had never before happened - I felt numb and surreal - and almost couldn't believe what happened either. But that was one time when Prabhupada saved me from danger with his words........Very surreal experience

 

But okay, regarding the message - thank you again for the replies -

 

All the Best.......

the dave

Comment by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer 31 minutes ago

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Comment by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer 46 minutes ago

. Srila Prabhupada said;  "When flying an airplane, one cannot take care of other planes. Everyone has to take care of his own plane, and if there is any danger, no other plane can help another in that condition. Similarly, at the end of life, when one has to go back home, back to Godhead, everyone has to take care of himself without help rendered by another. The help is, however, offered on the ground before flying in space. Similarly, the spiritual master, the father, the mother, the relatives, the husband and others can all render help during one's lifetime, but while crossing the sea one has to take care of himself and utilize the instructions formerly received".

Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna

Comment by I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer 1 hour ago

 

Dear Dave, and Ranacora ; My respects and greetings to you both. I read your conversation with great interest, and have some spices to toss in ;

The relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple is not external. In the self realized awareness, the devotee recalls his original eternal spirtual form/body, his relationships, his things and his nature, the innermost eternal self and all relationshsips since time immemorial, including his relationship with the Being who is his group leader or guru, all of whom ultimately are engaged in love and service of Radha and Krishna in formats designed to harmonize all.

For example The spiritual master is often a  senior friend and intimate servant of one of the gopis, for example, and the disciple is eternally his associate, and thus servant of the servant of that particualr gopi, who is servant of Radha. The spiritual master is always in that position for the devotee, according to their individual rasas or flavors of exchange with Godhead. There are naturally tasteful mixes of persoanlites, etc. Other aspects of Vishnu have Their own realms, devotees, and pastimes accordingly etc., so there is no limit. A devotee may also have a body simultaneously in more than one realm and pastimes.

The devotee may in turn have their followers, etc and the chain is thus unlimited and unbroken for long. the further removed, the more ecstatic it becomes. Godhead is always fully present, it is a pastime flavor created for everyones Pleasure there! The spiritual master has a personal relationship with the devotee in the spiritual world from which they both originally came, but the soul fell down, whereas the spiritual master came voluntarily to save the devotee. The relationship is renewed, the soul reawakens. It is the reality, not temporary or imposed or imaginary in any way.

 

And yes, as Dave suggests, I paraphrase him to say Srila Prabhupada did not want "yes-men". He wanted thoughtful independence. The society's external form, ISKCON, has been usurped, and they , like the NWO wetc , have a mentality of controlling and belittling all opposition to their pyramid-like deviances. This is not the original Iskcon that spread world wide by spiritual-evolutionary tactics. Neither should any be encouraged to become slave-like in any way shape or form except by way of voluntarism to the advanced pure devotee and God Himself.

 

Love means there must be free will, to choose to love. Otherwise it is not love, it is automatic slavery. Our movement is against this slavery, as it is anathema to the souls' nature.

 

There is so much to discuss, but i just thought to add some of my own flavor to the tasty curry ! Hare Krishna

Comment by Ranacora 6 hours ago

Dave, this is exactly what I thought before, and was eagerly advocated, the same words. :) However, I'd like to stress two 'problematic' points for "westerners" manly.

First, the thing called "devotion" is almost absolutely unknown thing in the West. It is beyond respect, beyond being grateful, and beyond material consciousness. It is pure spiritual, divine and most natural thing. We generally perceive it as bowing down to somebody or something like that... It is not possible for me to express properly in words what devotion really is. I've learned it by myself, without a help of anyone outside, I learned what it is from within, when I was ready.

Another thing is: there are so many false gurus, who literally abuse the relationship guru-disciple and that's where the fear of "losing-giving power" comes from. Real guru is capable of enlightening a disciple - if a disciple is ready for that spiritually. It is completely life-changing. In that way guru is necessary, to impart crystalized knowledge of the spirit, of the soul. The situation is very specific and very hard in Kali yuga, when nobody seems to know anything for sure, so as you can see, we're dealing with speculations about spiritual life, God, creation etc etc.. There seems to be no unified and absoulute truth on any matter. Instead, all things are considered true by themselves, or relative by themselves, in order to "keep peace in the house."

I myself have gone through most significant spiritual phases alone, with no guide from outside. Yes, there were some so-called teachers who wanted to teach me, but I refused them and took it all into my hands. I have finally discovered Krsna consciousness by myself, again alone, without anyone saying me this or that. I started with reading scriptures like Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, translated by Srila Prabhupada. Has anyone else translated it yet except him? For me, he was the "bridge" in that I was able to find out more about Krsna consciousness from those scriptures. I myself am not initiated and I wonder if I ever will be in this lifetime. You can find more about my transcendental path before Krsna consciousness on this link: http://divinacorona.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/my-transcendental-expe... 

I believe it is very transparent to any careful and interested reader what I was doing... 

Comment by the dave 1 day ago

I know the Krsna devotees love Srila Prabhupada - but it seems to me that there is an artificial imposition of a middle man between the devotees and the highest source. And while Gaudiya Vaisnavas are following a path that has been referred to by many Star Visitors as being the closest 'religion' to truth here on gaia, it is still missing the ultimate point of going within and becoming our own master. - it seems that it separates one from the Supreme, not connects - unless through a 3rd party guru...

 

I mean no disrespect - but I believe the point is missed in Krsna Consciousness. You do not need someone outside yourself to lead you. You do not need to be 'initiated' by anyone. You need to step into your OWN power, and not give it to another - whether they be illuminati or devotee......

Comment by Ranacora on December 21, 2010 at 5:06pm

Yep! And that is the very top secret! However, that's how the things go in Kali yuga...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlP162B8OEE&feature=related

Haribol!

Thank you for the replies, Tamohara and Ranacora.I've read through them, and I will read them again closer and consider the points you make. In the meantime, if I may, I did have a surreal experience involving Srila Prabhupada's words - and just to be clear - I know many Krsna members - and have spent time in many ISKCON centers, alwaya as a guest, however.

 

But, about 15 - 20 years ago - I had been reading the book Life Comes from Life - which was discussions Prabhupada would have while taking a morning walk with others. One of the things he said somewhere was when you comes across a wild dog who seems intent on attacking you, by saying HUT HUT HUT you will keep him away. I was taking a walk on my own one day and was thinking about Prabhupadas walks and some of the things he said in that book, such as the part about the dog - and I came to a park - where a crazy dog started barking like mad and threatening to attack me. It was the closest I've ever come to being attacked by a dog, and he seemed extra mean. Even the owner was there but could not get him under control. The owner later said that never happened before. - But I remembered what Prabhupada said - and was constantly yelling hut hut hut at the dog. He would lunge at me, very close and very mean  - and I would stand there and loudly yell the hut hut hut and he would back off for a moment then come again. It went on for what seemed like 10 minutes or more - and whenever he was close to reaching me - I was able to keep him away. The owner apologized and said it was so weird - that it had never before happened - I felt numb and surreal - and almost couldn't believe what happened either. But that was one time when Prabhupada saved me from danger with his words........Very surreal experience

 

But okay, regarding the message - thank you again for the replies -

 

All the Best.......

the dave

[I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer]

Delete Comment

[I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer]

. Srila Prabhupada said;  "When flying an airplane, one cannot take care of other planes. Everyone has to take care of his own plane, and if there is any danger, no other plane can help another in that condition. Similarly, at the end of life, when one has to go back home, back to Godhead, everyone has to take care of himself without help rendered by another. The help is, however, offered on the ground before flying in space. Similarly, the spiritual master, the father, the mother, the relatives, the husband and others can all render help during one's lifetime, but while crossing the sea one has to take care of himself and utilize the instructions formerly received".

Your servant,
B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna

[I Tamoharadasa the Wanderer]

 

Dear Dave, and Ranacora ; My respects and greetings to you both. I read your conversation with great interest, and have some spices to toss in ;

The relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple is not external. In the self realized awareness, the devotee recalls his original eternal spirtual form/body, his relationships, his things and his nature, the innermost eternal self and all relationshsips since time immemorial, including his relationship with the Being who is his group leader or guru, all of whom ultimately are engaged in love and service of Radha and Krishna in formats designed to harmonize all.

For example The spiritual master is often a  senior friend and intimate servant of one of the gopis, for example, and the disciple is eternally his associate, and thus servant of the servant of that particualr gopi, who is servant of Radha. The spiritual master is always in that position for the devotee, according to their individual rasas or flavors of exchange with Godhead. There are naturally tasteful mixes of persoanlites, etc. Other aspects of Vishnu have Their own realms, devotees, and pastimes accordingly etc., so there is no limit. A devotee may also have a body simultaneously in more than one realm and pastimes.

The devotee may in turn have their followers, etc and the chain is thus unlimited and unbroken for long. the further removed, the more ecstatic it becomes. Godhead is always fully present, it is a pastime flavor created for everyones Pleasure there! The spiritual master has a personal relationship with the devotee in the spiritual world from which they both originally came, but the soul fell down, whereas the spiritual master came voluntarily to save the devotee. The relationship is renewed, the soul reawakens. It is the reality, not temporary or imposed or imaginary in any way.

 

And yes, as Dave suggests, I paraphrase him to say Srila Prabhupada did not want "yes-men". He wanted thoughtful independence. The society's external form, ISKCON, has been usurped, and they , like the NWO wetc , have a mentality of controlling and belittling all opposition to their pyramid-like deviances. This is not the original Iskcon that spread world wide by spiritual-evolutionary tactics. Neither should any be encouraged to become slave-like in any way shape or form except by way of voluntarism to the advanced pure devotee and God Himself.

 

Love means there must be free will, to choose to love. Otherwise it is not love, it is automatic slavery. Our movement is against this slavery, as it is anathema to the souls' nature.

 

There is so much to discuss, but i just thought to add some of my own flavor to the tasty curry ! Hare Krishna

[Ranacora]

Dave, this is exactly what I thought before, and was eagerly advocated, the same words. :) However, I'd like to stress two 'problematic' points for "westerners" manly.

First, the thing called "devotion" is almost absolutely unknown thing in the West. It is beyond respect, beyond being grateful, and beyond material consciousness. It is pure spiritual, divine and most natural thing. We generally perceive it as bowing down to somebody or something like that... It is not possible for me to express properly in words what devotion really is. I've learned it by myself, without a help of anyone outside, I learned what it is from within, when I was ready.

Another thing is: there are so many false gurus, who literally abuse the relationship guru-disciple and that's where the fear of "losing-giving power" comes from. Real guru is capable of enlightening a disciple - if a disciple is ready for that spiritually. It is completely life-changing. In that way guru is necessary, to impart crystalized knowledge of the spirit, of the soul. The situation is very specific and very hard in Kali yuga, when nobody seems to know anything for sure, so as you can see, we're dealing with speculations about spiritual life, God, creation etc etc.. There seems to be no unified and absoulute truth on any matter. Instead, all things are considered true by themselves, or relative by themselves, in order to "keep peace in the house."

I myself have gone through most significant spiritual phases alone, with no guide from outside. Yes, there were some so-called teachers who wanted to teach me, but I refused them and took it all into my hands. I have finally discovered Krsna consciousness by myself, again alone, without anyone saying me this or that. I started with reading scriptures like Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, translated by Srila Prabhupada. Has anyone else translated it yet except him? For me, he was the "bridge" in that I was able to find out more about Krsna consciousness from those scriptures. I myself am not initiated and I wonder if I ever will be in this lifetime. You can find more about my transcendental path before Krsna consciousness on this link: http://divinacorona.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/my-transcendental-expe... 

I believe it is very transparent to any careful and interested reader what I was doing... 

[the dave]

I know the Krsna devotees love Srila Prabhupada - but it seems to me that there is an artificial imposition of a middle man between the devotees and the highest source. And while Gaudiya Vaisnavas are following a path that has been referred to by many Star Visitors as being the closest 'religion' to truth here on gaia, it is still missing the ultimate point of going within and becoming our own master. - it seems that it separates one from the Supreme, not connects - unless through a 3rd party guru...

 

I mean no disrespect - but I believe the point is missed in Krsna Consciousness. You do not need someone outside yourself to lead you. You do not need to be 'initiated' by anyone. You need to step into your OWN power, and not give it to another - whether they be illuminati or devotee......

[Ranacora]

Yep! And that is the very top secret! However, that's how the things go in Kali yuga...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlP162B8OEE&feature=related

Haribol!