Other Related Objections
1) "Srila Prabhupada has not mentioned the use of ritviks in his books."
1) The word "ritvik" (meaning "priest") and its derivatives actually have 31 separate references in Srila Prabhupada's books, only slightly less than the word "diksa" and its derivatives, which has 41 separate references in Srila Prabhupada books. Certainly, the use of ritvik priests to assist in ceremonies is a concept fully sanctioned in Srila Prabhupada's books:
Ritvik : 4.6.1 / 4.7.16 / 5.3.2 / 5.3.3 / 5.4.17 / 7.3.30 / 8.20.22 / 9.1.15 .
Rtvijah : 4.5.7 / 4.5.18 / 4.7.27 / 4.7.45 / 4.13.26 / 4.19.27 / 4.19.29 / 5.3.4 / 5.3.15 / 5.3.18 / 5.7.5 / 8.16.53 / 8.18.21 /8.18.22 / 9.4.23 / 9.6.35
Rtvijam : 4.6.52 / 4.21.5 / 8.23.13 / 9.13.1 .
Rtvigbhyah : 8.16.55 .
Rtvigbhih : 4.7.56 / 9.13.3 .
(all these references are from the Srimad-Bhagavatam)
2) Although spiritual principles were covered extensively by Srila Prabhupada in his books, the specifics concerning those principles would often not be given (for example in the area of Deity worship). These specific details would usually be communicated by other means such as letters, and practical demonstration. Thus, one needs to distinguish between the principle of diksa or initiation, and the details of its formalisation. Srila Prabhupada never defined diksa in terms of any ritualistic ceremony, but as the receipt of transcendental knowledge that leads to liberation:
"In other words, the spiritual master awakens the sleeping living entity to his original consciousness so that he can worship Lord Visnu. This is the purpose of diksa, or initiation. Initiation means receiving the pure knowledge of spiritual consciousness." (C.c. Madhya, 9.61, purport)
"Diksa actually means initiating a disciple with transcendental knowledge by which he becomes freed from all material contamination." (C.c. Madhya, 4.111, purport)
"Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa." (C.c. Madhya, 15.108, purport)
Diksa normally involves a ceremony, but it is not absolutely essential, more a formality:
"So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahaprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Maharaja." (Srila Prabhupada Lecture, 10/12/76, Hyderabad)
"Initiation is a formality. If you are serious, that is real initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination, that is initiation." ("The Search for the Divine", Back To Godhead #49)
"...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69)
"The chanting of Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Tamal Krishna, 19/8/68)
"Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge... knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing." (Srila Prabhupada Interview, 16/10/76, Chandigarh)
Srila Prabhupada: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules.
Disciple: As long as they are following, then he is...
Srila Prabhupada: Then he is all right.
(Srila Prabhupada Morning walk, 13/6/76, Detroit)
"...unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline." (Srila Prabhupada Morning walk, 8/3/76, Mayapur)
"If one does not observe the discipline, then he is not disciple." (Srila Prabhupada S.B. Lecture, 21/1/74)
Thus the ceremonial initiation is a formality performed to solidify in the mind of the disciple the serious commitments he has made to the process of diksa. Such commitments include:
Receiving transcendental knowledge which will purify him of all contamination.
Maintaining the determination to always follow the order of the diksa guru.
To begin enthusiastically executing the spiritual master's orders.
Srila Prabhupada has clearly stated that the formality of the ceremony is just that, a formality, not an essential. Furthermore, this formalisation of initiation through a ceremony, itself involves a number of elements:
1. Recommendation by an official of the institution, usually the Temple President.
2. Acceptance by acting ritvik.
3. The participation in a fire yajna.
4. The taking of a spiritual name.
It is only points 2 and 4 which necessarily involves a ritvik priest. 1 and 3 are usually carried out by the Temple President.
As mentioned previously, nowhere is it ever stated that the guru and disciple must co-exist on the same planet in order for the disciple to receive any element of diksa, such as transcendental knowledge, annihilation of sinful reactions, a fire yajna ceremony and a spiritual name. On the other hand, every element of diksa (knowledge transmission, the yajna, etc.), can be given easily without the guru's physical presence. This was demonstrated practically by Srila Prabhupada, as he gave all the elements of diksa through intermediaries such as his disciples and books. Thus, no spiritual principles are changed through the use of ritviks. Only a change of detail is involved.
Thus to put into perspective the use of ritviks, it has been shown that we are dealing with the details of a formalisation ceremony; a ceremony which itself constitutes but one element, and a non-essential element at that, of the transcendental process of diksa (see diagram below)
We note that Srila Prabhupada dealt with all these elements in a manner proportional to their importance:
ITEM EXPLAINED IN BOOKS? FOLLOWED TRADITION? MAJOR CHANGES TO TRADITION? CHANGES TO TRADITION EXPLAINED IN BOOKS?
Diksa YES
NO Knowledge given primarily through vani and not physical contact.
Personal pariksa little used.
New initiation standards. SOME
Initiation ceremony process NO NO Use of deputies to chant on initiates beads.
Giving gayatri mantra by magnetic tape. NO
Name giving process NO NO Name given at time of harinama diksa.
The use of deputies to give the name. NO
Thus the lack of specific mention in Srila Prabhupada's books regarding the use of ritviks in initiation procedures, either historical or contemporary, is consistent with Srila Prabhupada's general approach to matters surrounding initiation; specific mention in his books being directly proportional to the significance of the innovations involved.
2) "How can pariksa (mutual examination between disciple and guru), an essential element of diksa, be achieved without physical contact?"
This question arises from the stated requirement that a disciple must "approach", "inquire from" and "render service to" a guru (Bg. 4.34), and that the guru must "observe" the disciple (C.c. Madhya 24.330). If we examine these verses carefully the following points become apparent:
There is no mention that this "inquiring", "rendering service to" and "observing" necessitates direct physical contact.
The Bg. 4.34 purport speaks of these activities as being essential for a disciple. Thus, if these activities absolutely require the guru to be on the same planet, then no-one has been Srila Prabhupada's disciple since November 14th, 1977.
The "inquiring" is done so the "spiritual master" can "impart knowledge". However, to "impart knowledge" is also the definition of siksa, and it is already accepted that in order to impart siksa, or to accept inquiries pertaining to siksa, the guru does not need to be on the planet - (please see Appendices - "Does the guru need to be physically present?"). And as explained above, by the logic of this proposition no one had had any "knowledge imparted" to them since November 14th 1977.
The "observing" is simply the agreement by the prospective disciple to follow the regulative principles and can be monitored by representatives of the guru:
"In our Krishna Consciousness Movement the requirement is that one must be prepared to give up the four pillars of sinful life [...] In western countries especially we first observe whether a potential disciple is prepared to follow the regulative principles." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport, emphasis added)
This facility to use representatives is again repeated a few lines later when discussing the observation required for prospective second initiation candidates:
"In this way the disciple renders devotional service under the guidance of the spiritual master or his representatives for at least six months to a year." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport, emphasis added)
A few lines later we see how vital the use of representatives really is:
"The spiritual master should study the disciple's inquisitiveness for no less then six months or a year." (C.c. Madhya, 24.330, purport)
Bearing in mind the way in which Srila Prabhupada had set up the society, the above stipulation would have been impossible to follow. He could not possibly have observed every one of his thousands of disciples for a full 6 months. Thus, the use of representatives was not just a matter of choice, but totally unavoidable if the above requirement was to have been fulfilled by Srila Prabhupada. If personal (as in him being physically involved) pariksa by the guru was an inviolable sastric principle, why would Srila Prabhupada have purposely set up a preaching mission (with disciples and centres all around the world) that rendered such personal examination impossible? One is, in effect, arguing that Srila Prabhupada only achieved his preaching success at the expense of violating sastra, an argument commonly used by other Gaudiya Vaisnava groups in India.
All the above points are further substantiated by the strongest evidence possible - extensive practical example from the acarya himself: Srila Prabhupada initiated the majority of his disciples without any personal pariksa. Thus, Srila Prabhupada instituted a system whereby approaching his representatives for diksa was the same as approaching him directly. It may be argued that the elimination of personal pariksa was justified because the guru was still present on the planet. Thus, at least personal pariksa could theoretically have occurred. However this argument has no basis since:
There is no mention of this special get-out clause for personal pariksa in any scripture. It would simply be an invention to fit the circumstances after the fact.
When describing the use of representatives for personal pariksa, Srila Prabhupada never states that they can only exist if he is on the planet. What hitherto unmentioned sastric principle forces a limitation on the use of representatives in certain circumstances pertaining to the physical proximity of the person employing them?
As demonstrated, the need for personal pariksa is not a sastric requirement. Srila Prabhupada supports the use of representatives, such as his disciples and books, as a substitute for personal pariksa. So the question of when personal pariksa may or may not be eliminated does not even arise
That diksa was given without physical contact is itself proof that diksa can be achieved without personal pariksa.
The very fact that personal pariksa was not always undertaken, even when it was possible to do so, proves that it can not be necessary to the process of diksa.
Srila Prabhupada made it very clear what standards he expected in a disciple; the Temple Presidents and ritviks were meant to see them continued. The standards for initiation today are identical to those established by Srila Prabhupada whilst he was present. So if he requested not to be consulted whilst he was present, what makes us think he would urgently want to intervene now? The only concern for us is to ensure that the standards are rigidly maintained without change or speculation.
3) "We may accept Srila Prabhupada, but how do we know he has accepted us as his disciple even in his physical absence?"
On July 7th, when setting up the ritvik system, Srila Prabhupada states that the ritviks could accept devotees as his disciples without consulting him. Thus, Srila Prabhupada was not involved in the process of screening, or approving new disciples. The ritviks had full authority and discretion. Srila Prabhupada's physical involvement was not required.
Srila Prabhupada: So without waiting for me, wherever you consider it is right. That will depend on discretion.
Tamal Krishna: On discretion.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes.
(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 7/7/77, Vrindavan)
Furthermore, the names given by the ritviks would be entered by Tamal Krishna Goswami into the "Initiated disciples" book. Thus, externally at least, Srila Prabhupada would not even have been aware of the disciple's existence. Consequently, the process now would be the same as it was then, since the ritvik has full power of attorney.
4) "Only if diksa initiation has occurred before the guru leaves the planet is it possible to carry on approaching, enquiring and serving him in his physical absence."
At least the above assertion concedes the point that it is possible to approach, enquire from and serve a physically absent spiritual master. The injunction that this is only possible - "if the diksa link is made before the guru leaves the planet" - is pure invention, with no reference in Srila Prabhupada's books, and thus can be ignored. Diksa does not even require a formal initiation ceremony to make it function; it is the transmission of transcendental knowledge from guru to receptive disciple (along with the annihilation of sinful reactions):
"...disciplic succession does not always mean that one has to be initiated officially. Disciplic succession means to accept the disciplic conclusion." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dinesh, 31/10/69)
"Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge... knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing." (Srila Prabhupada Interview, 16/10/76, Chandigarh)
It is irrational to assert that the transcendental process of diksa cannot work properly if the guru is not physically present during a non-essential fire yajna; particularly since:
Srila Prabhupada was often not physically present during initiation ceremonies. They were frequently carried out by his representatives, i.e. Temple Presidents, senior sannyasis and ritviks.
It is accepted that many thousands of Srila Prabhupada's disciples are still benefiting from the process of diksa even though their guru has been physically absent for nearly two decades.
It might be argued that although Srila Prabhupada was not present at these initiations, still he was physically present on the same planet at the time they took place. So is the guru's physical presence on the planet during initiation essential to diksa? In order to lend weight to this argument we would need to find an injunction in Srila Prabhupada's books to the effect that:
"Diksa can only take place if the guru is within a distance, not greater than the earth's diameter, of his disciple during a formal initiation ceremony."
To date no one has been able to locate such an injunction. Rather as the quote below shows, a well-known example of diksa in our philosophy (Bg. 4.1)actually contradicts the above proposition:
"So there was no difficulty in communicating with Manu or Manu's son, Iksvaku. The communication was there, or the radio system was so nice that communication could be transferred from one planet to another." (Srila Prabhupada Bg. Lecture, 24/8/68)
It would appear that diksa is not affected by the physical distances between gurus and disciples.
5) "What you are proposing sounds suspiciously like Christianity!"
We are not proposing the ritvik system, Srila Prabhupada is - in the final order of July 9th, 1977. Thus even if it is like Christianity, we still have to follow it, since it is the order of the guru.
Srila Prabhupada clearly sanctioned the idea of the Christians continuing to follow the departed Jesus Christ as their guru. He taught that anyone who followed Christ's teachings was a disciple, and would achieve the level of liberation that was being offered by Jesus Christ:
Madhudvisa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a Spiritual Master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Srila Prabhupada: I don't follow.
Tamal Krishna: Can a Christian in this age, without a Spiritual Master, but by reading the Bible, and following Jesus"s words, reach the...
Srila Prabhupada: When you read the Bible, you follow Spiritual Master. How can you say without? As soon as you read the Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means that you are following Spiritual Master. So where is the opportunity of being without Spiritual Master?
Madhudvisa: I was referring to a living Spiritual Master.
Srila Prabhupada: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that “by reading Bible,” when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. (Morning Walk, 2/10/68, Seattle)
"Regarding the end of devotees of Lord Jesus Christ, they can go to heaven, that is all. That is a planet in the material world. A devotee of Lord Jesus Christ is one who is strictly following the ten commandments. [...] Therefore the conclusion is that the devotees of Lord Jesus Christ are promoted to the heavenly planets which are within this material world." (Srila Prabhupada Letter to Bhagavan, 2/3/70)
"Actually, one who is guided by Jesus Christ will certainly get liberation." (Perfect Questions Perfect Answers, chapter 9)
"...Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. You follow some mahajana, great personality [...] You follow one acarya, like Christians, they follow Christ, acarya. The Mohammedans, they follow acarya, Mohammed. That is good. you must follow some acarya [...] evam parampara-praptam." (Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 20/5/75, Melbourne)
This objection to being "Christian" is ironic, since the current guru system in ISKCON has itself adopted certain Christian procedures: The theology behind the GBC voting in gurus is similar to the system of the College of Cardinals voting in Popes in the Catholic Church:
"Voting procedures [...] for guru candidate [...] who will be established by the voting members [...] voting for guru process [...] by a two third vote of the GBC [...] all GBCs are candidates for appointment as guru." (GBC Resolutions)
Similarly the GBC calls itself "the highest ecclesiastical body guiding ISKCON" (Back To Godhead 1990-1991): again "Christian" terminology.
These particular "Christian" practices were never taught by Jesus, and were totally condemned by Srila Prabhupada:
"Mundane votes have no jurisdiction to elect a Vaisnava acarya. A Vaisnava acarya is self effulgent, and there is no need for any court judgement." (C.c. Madhya, 1.220, purport)
"Srila Jiva Gosvami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social, and ecclesiastical conventions." (C.c. Adi, 1.35, purport)
6) "The ritviks give a type of diksa. Srila Prabhupada is only our siksa guru."
The function of the ritvik is distinct from that of the diksa guru. His only purpose is to assist the diksa guru in initiating disciples, not take them for himself.
The ritvik only oversees the initiation procedure, gives a spiritual name, but he does not even necessarily perform the fire yajna. The Temple President normally did this, - and no one is saying he is the diksa guru.
Why not allow Srila Prabhupada to be what he wants to be? He is certainly our siksa guru, but as he clearly indicated on July 9th, he was also to be our diksa guru.
Since Srila Prabhupada is our predominant siksa guru, he is our de facto diksa guru anyway, since:
He gives the divya jnana or transcendental knowledge - definition of diksa.
He plants the bhakti lata bija - definition of diksa.
Devotees can also assist in the above two activities (by preaching, book distribution etc.), but they are vartma-pradasaka gurus, not diksa gurus, though by such service they may also become liberated souls.
The predominant siksa guru usually becomes the diksa guru anyway:
"Srila Prabhupada is the foundational siksa guru for all ISKCON devotees [...] Srila Prabhupada's instructions are the essential teachings for every ISKCON devotee." (GBC Resolutions, No. 35, 1994)
"Generally a spiritual master who constantly instructs a disciple in spiritual science becomes his initiating spiritual master later on." (C.c. Adi, 1.35, purport)
"It is the duty of the siksa guru or diksa guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa guru and diksa guru, and generally the siksa guru later on becomes the diksa guru." (S.B. 4.12.32, purport)
7) "If Srila Prabhupada is everyones siksa guru, then how can he be diksa guru too?
The confusion between diksa and siksa gurus occurs because their titles are confused with their functions. Thus it is sometimes assumed that only the siksa guru can give siksa, not the diksa guru. However, as the last verse just quoted demonstrates, the diksa guru also instructs. This should be obvious, otherwise how else will he transmit divya jnana?:
Pradyumna: Guru-padasrayah. "First one must take shelter of the lotus feet of a spiritual master." Tasmat Krishna- diksadi-siksanam. Tasmat, "from him", Krishna- diksadi-siksanam, "one should take Krishna-Diksa, initiation, and Siksa."
Srila Prabhupada: Diksa means divya-jnanam ksapayati iti diksa. Which explains the divya-jnana, transcendental, that is diksa. Di, divya, diksanam. diksa. So divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge... If you don't accept a spiritual master, how you'll get transcen... you'll be taught here and there, here and there, and waste time. Waste time for the teacher and waste your valuable time. Therefore you have to be guided by an expert spiritual master. Read it.
Pradyumna: Krishna- diksadi-siksanam.
Srila Prabhupada: Siksanam. We have to learn. If you don't learn, how you'll make progress? Then?
(Srila Prabhupada Room conversation, 27/1/77, Bhubaneswar)
That transcendental siksa is the essence of diksa, is evident from the most well known verse on the guru-disciple relationship (Bg. 4.34). In this verse the word "upadeksyanti" is translated in the word for word as meaning "initiate". The verse however states that this "initiation" requires the guru to "impart knowledge", and that this is assisted through the disciple "inquiring". Consequently the "Prabhupada is siksa not diksa" advocates are caught in a logistical trap of their own making. If Srila Prabhupada is capable of "imparting knowledge" when he is not on the planet - then he must, by definition be giving divya jnana - transcendental knowledge. Thus, if Srila Prabhupada can be a siksa guru without the need for physical interaction, then why not diksa also? It is ludicrous to argue that Srila Prabhupada can give siksa when not on the planet if acting as a siksa guru, but he can not give siksa if we change his title. The very fact that he can be a siksa Guru whilst not on the planet, is itself evidence that he simultaneously can give diksa.
Some individuals have gone the next step; arguing that Srila Prabhupada can not even give transcendental siksa without a physical body. If this were the case, one wonders why Srila Prabhupada went to such effort to write so many books and set up a trust with the sole purpose of propagating them for the next ten thousand years? If it is no longer possible to receive transcendental instruction from Srila Prabhupada's books, why are we distributing them, and why are people still surrendering purely on the strength of them?
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