You're Just Envious Because We Have All The Power
And You Have Nothing",
said one of the GBCs to me.
By The Watchdog staff
June 21, 2010
The following is a Watchdog interview with one of the senior devotees of ISKCON, Guru Kripa prabhu. He became the 12th GBC chosen by Srila Prabhupada, and is also one of few individuals Srila Prabhupada named as the "executor" of his last will. He is also famous for being responsible for seeing to the major portion of the collecting that built the Krishna Balaram Mandir in Vrindavan.
WD: Guru Kripa, how did you join ISKCON?
GK: I had just returned from the Vietnam war in January of 1970. I was a medic in the Army. I met the devotees in San Francisco in April of the same year and joined their store front temple on Fredrick St one week later. Jayananda was the first devotee I had met. He was at the door collecting 75 cents from the hippies for the Sunday feast. I had already shaved up the week before and went to Madhuvisa, the temple president, saying, "who is that guy at the door. I talked him down to 10 cents to get in. You should put me there". So he put me in charge at the door. These hippies would say, "I don't have the money", and I would tell them to go out and beg it like we do. When I joined I gave $5,000 to the temple. In those days, to the devotees, that was a lot of money. Madhuvisa said, "you sure you want to give all that money"? But I gave everything.
WD: When did you first meet Srila Prabhupada?
GK: The first darshan was In June or July of '70, Srila Prabhupada came to San Francisco for the Rathayatra. I was one of the cooks - myself, Babruvahan, and Gaura Hari. We were cooking for days at some church for the Rathayatra feast. We had to make 10,000 puris. All the devotees from different temple such as Los Angeles, San Jose, Vancouver, etc., gathered in the airport to meet His Divine Grace. Brahmananda had just come from Japan with the first "Krsna" book. In those days, one had to descend from the plane by a staircase and then ascend another one to enter the airport. Visnujana Swami was chanting. As Prabhupada appeared, everyone hit the floor, except for Visnujana, because he was leading kirtan. He just bowed somewhat, and Prabhupada came over and patted him on the back. As I saw Prabhupada it was just unbelievable. I was just a short guy in the crowd, and I stood against the wall trying to get a glimpse of him over devotee's shoulders. Srila Prabhupada was finally just near the exit, and I was way in the back just trying to get a peak. Suddenly he stopped and turned, and he walked, and everybody moved, and he walked right to me. He looked me right in the eye, and then he put his arms around me and hugged me. Many of the devotees gathered around saying, "Do you know him? Why did he do that"? I knew by that look in his eyes that I came to serve him, that I was with him before, that he knows everything. That was the first time that I saw him.
WD: When did you go to India for the first time?
GK: Sometime after the Rathayatra of '71, I went with Yasodananda to Bombay. He was a new sannyasi at 18 years of age. I was still a brahmacari. Prabhupada was there in Bombay. Every opportunity I had, anyone who came into Srila Prabhupada's room to see him, I would go in the room with them and sit in the back. And then I would get the ego from the older devotees who were also there, "What are you doing in here? Who said you can come in here"? I'm tough anyway, and in my mind I would say that "if he doesn't want me in here, let him tell me to get out. I'm not going to let you tell me to get out". The only one that didn't give me that, was Shyamasundar. He was only nice and friendly. I would go on these morning walks with Srila Prabhupada, and he would always say things to me that I didn't know. He would turn and say, "Why is that grass growing in the cracks"? I would reply, "I don't know". We went to Madras and he said on a morning walk, "What's that statue over there", and I would say, "I don't know". He was teaching me, that you don't know anything in front of the guru. Everything he said I had no answer for. And then once in a while he would give me one of those special looks. When we went to open Puri Maharaj's temple in Vishakapatnam, I asked Srila Prabhupada, what was the difference between cow milk and buffalo milk. When he just kind of looks at you but doesn't answer, then you don't ask another question for two months. I'll tell you another nice story. We went down to the train station when Srila Prabhupada was going to Calcutta. Shyamasundar, who was Prabhupada's servant, saw this giant coconut in a tree and he got someone to climb up there and cut it for Srila Prabhupada to drink. It was 12 o'clock noon, sweaty hot, and we were dying of thirst. But we kept chanting and chanting in the kirtan waiting for the train to leave. It wasn't leaving on time, Indian style. So Shyamasundar opened that coconut and Srila Prabhupada drank from it. Then Shyamasundar drank, then the servants drank, and then they brought it out to us and we all drank and had our belly full. It came to me first, and I just chugged and chugged. I didn't care if the other devotees got any. But even after it was passed around and everyone got their fill, it was still never finished. And I knew that it was Prabhupada's mystic potency, that we all ten devotees.drank from one coconut, to our full satisfaction. He used his mystic powers very seldom, but he did it once in a while. We finally gave the coconut to some kid and he walked off with it drinking from it WD: When had you taken sannyasa?
GK: During kartike of '72, at Rupa Goswami's samadhi.
WD: Were there others who also took sannyasa with you?
GK: Yes. There was Paramahamsa and Parivrajakacarya. They had just appeared in Vrindavan from Denver and requested Srila Prabhupada to give them sannyasa, but nobody knew them or their service very much. At first Prabhupada said no to them, but when they went back and said that they were going to go to Vietnam, and it was still during the war, then Srila Prabhupada said, "then you must take sannyasa to preach in a war zone". Unfortunately, they never went to Vietnam.
WD: When did Prabhupada choose you to be GBC, and which number were you?
GK: I was number twelve. He chose me to be GBC in 1974. He made me GBC in Hawaii. They were having some political problems in the Honolulu temple, which was donated by Ambarish. So I went there and helped resolve things. When Prabhupada finally arrived, he made me the GBC. But I didn't accept right away. I said that I didn't want to be a GBC. And he said we would talk about it later. So then we went to Mayapur together for the festival in February. Again Srila Prabhupada said he wanted me to become a GBC. Again I told him that I didn't want to. So this went on for about ten days. Finally, into the fifth day of the GBC meetings, Srila Prabhupada sent someone to find me. When I came to him I bowed down, and he said very sternly to me, "Enough. Now go to the meetings!". So I surrendered. Friendly talks were over.
WD: So you were there during the early days of the GBC. Can you say something to compare then, to how things are managed by the GBC today?
GK: Yes. Recently in Vrindavan this past January or February, as I was walking to the ISKCON gosala, I met Ravindra Swarup along the pathway and had some conversation with him. Now Ravindra was chosen to be the GBC for Hawaii for the recent six years. I also have been going to Hawaii three or four times a year because of my business I do there. During those six years, Ravindra Swarup visited Hawaii maybe once for four days, to give a Bhagavad-gita seminar. So during his visit that time, I knocked on his door and said to him, that this temple has been neglected by the GBC and there are so many problems. I said to him that Prabhupada gave me this service, and that "why don't you GBC people give it to me"? There was no response. So the next time I saw him was in Vrindavan. me and another vaishnava had just come from bathing in the Yamuna. From a distance I said, "Is that him"? Because I hadn't seen him at the temple or at the morning program. As I got near to him, he tried to give me a hug, but I challenged that, "why have you come here to the dham? It's a place for vrata". His reply was that he had come there to goof off! And I thought to myself that this is a reply from someone who is supposed to be a guru or spiritual master? I also said to him that he and the other GBCs shouldn't decide anything without talking to at least 200 of their own godbrothers, that the devotees are concerned which way they see that ISKCON is headed. Then he said to me, "You just want what we have. We've got the power and you want it". I couldn't believe it. And I said, "you got the power - what power"? They think this way, that we are envious, that we want what they have, to be the enjoyers, like any materialistic person thinks. "Oh I own this gas station, this or that thing". They have simply become attached and are trying to protect their so-called positions.
WD: What is the difference in the way you saw Prabhupada deal with the devotees and even his own godbrothers, as compared with what you are describing in this instance?
GK: I personally observed that Srila Prabhupada would always try to engage all his godbrothers. Even Puri Maharaj told me that Prabhupada wanted him to go to America with him on the boat. He's a vaishnava. No devotee wants to be alone. We are all Krishna's servants, part of the spiritual family. So I asked Puri Maharaj why he didn't go. He said he thought about it many times and finally concluded that Krishna must have wanted Prabhupada to take all the credit. I'll relate to you a nice story. In 1975, Srila Prabhupada wanted to go to the Big Island of Hawaii. There was a farm that the temple owned. That wasn't his motive to go there, though. He didn't care about this farm. I remember that Sruti Kirti was Prabhupada's servant, him and Paramahamsa. This was my chance. I was the GBC of Hawaii and so I said to them, "No you can't come. I am going to be alone with Prabhupada". It was a dream of mine. I said that it was only for a day, that I would give him his massage and cook for him. So Prabhupada and me got on a plane to the Big Island. When we landed, this devotee Nrisringha who was in charge of the temple farm property, came to take us there. But Prabhupada didn't really want to go to the property. He said to me, "Where's Gaurasundar"? I said that I don't know, that he's got some farm with some goats or something. Prabhupada said, "Can we find out"? Later I gave Prabhupada a massage and I asked him, "Why are you after this Gaurasundar"? And he said, "I like that rascal". Two weeks later Gaurasundar shows up in the Honolulu temple while Srila Prabhupada is still there. He had heard that Prabhupada was looking for him. I snuck up to the room to hear their conversation. Prabhupada was sitting out on the veranda area where he got his massage. And I listened and I saw, Srila Prabhupada with tears in his eyes, saying, "Why have you left? What did I do, it must be me. I cannot figure out what you have done wrong. It has to be me. Please forgive me". Prabhupada was crying and begging him to please come back. Now, todays' GBC, do they want anybody to come back? Do they care? Prabhupada was crying for this one devotee, blaming himself that he had left. This is a vaishnava.He is only thinking what he can do. "I must have made some aparadha", Prabhupada said, "please forgive my offenses" and the tears came out of his eyes. When I saw these things, then my faith increased. Then I understood what is a devotee, a real devotee. What will please a real devotee. So my advice to this present GBC, "go get the godbrothers", with a straw in your teeth. They are not envious. Offer to engage them. That will please Srila Prabhupada very much. Then everything, all the blessings will come.
WD: Can you say something about how you view the spiritual health of ISKCON today, especially in the levels of GBC management?
GK: Well, certain devotees are doing good and are sincerely spreading Krishna consciousness. And then you have this other so-called elite group that really can't produce nor get rid of the "rubbish", coming out with so much nonsense ideas like to centralize Prabhupada's ISKCON movement. I told Sesa, one of the GBCs, "You know baseball, how many games are there"? He said 152. I said "yeah there are 152 games, and if you win only 20 but loose 132 games, do you think you are going to be the manager next year? Can't you go and see what certain devotees are or are not doing, and replace some of them and put some fresh blood in the GBC"? Common sense! And you got to love the devotees. You are either a vaishnava or you're not. Why isn't there a great momentum to contact and engage the older devotees and disciples of Srila Prabhupada who have left the Movement, and in many cases, because of how these GBCs treated them? And that is still going on. The GBC is now becoming very expert in how to legislate and kick devotees out with their new resolutions. But can they get on their knees, and like Srila Prabhupada, beg someone to return to devotional service? Me and Bhakta dasa are here in Thailand. No one is coming and approaching us, to engage us. The GBC took away my service. But Prabhupada thought it wise to put my name down, as one of the few executors of his last will.
WD: Sometimes we have seen after Prabhupada's disappearance, when a devotee may have some disagreements with some of the views of the present GBC, the GBC may "black list" him, or even threaten to excommunicate him. To your knowledge did Srila Prabhupada ever deem it necessary to use those kinds of punishments on a devotee?
GK: No. He brought Bali Mardan back three times. He brought Madhuvisa back. Anybody who fell down, he never found any fault. Only to those who were envious of him directly did he ban them. Once I asked Prabhupada about the devotee in the Bhagavatam, Ajamil. I said that he "blooped" from his brahminical vows for seventy years. You know what Prabhupada said? He said, "what is seventy years"? They, the GBC, can't keep doing this forever, ignoring the dissatisfaction of their godbrothers, or alienating and censoring them when they have the balls to speak up. These are the political ploys used by those who don't have enough courage and love like Prabhupada, to deal with such godbrothers or devotees on a real vaishnava level. They are also the tools used by those who want more power and position over the sincere but sometimes unsuspecting devotees. Or many times the defense of the GBC against those who are complaining is to just ignore them. What does that say about their abilities to actually be guiding the ISKCON movement? What does that show us about their qualities, their lack of compassion and integrity? They, the GBC, are not perfect. They make many mistakes, and being the leaders, they are the ones who really have to take the humble position. How many so-called gurus and GBCs have we already seen create some very horrendous situations in ISKCON, the fallout from which the movement is still suffering from many years later?
WD: So what would be your advice to the devotees who may be dissatisfied with the GBC of today?
GK: If you are not satisfied, or cannot convince the GBC to change, or cannot gather enough devotees together to force a change, or if you do not think that they are following Prabhupada, then who is to stop you from going out with some kartals and chanting Hare Krishna? Why not open your own center and preach Krishna consciousness? Stop watching TV, if you are, and stop complaining with so many articles on the internet day and night, and just go out and serve Srila Prabhupada. Either "you get it", as in understanding, or you don't get it. This applies to the GBC devotees and everyone else. You either got the mercy, or you don't. That's exactly what Prabhupada did, amidst the politics of the Gaudiya Math at the time. He went out and represented Lord Caitanya and his guru maharaj, and obviously, he had the mercy. Hare Krishna. WD: Thank you.
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