Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari
“Live in the poetic world of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Study the book with your intellect. It is a commentary on the logic of Vedanta-sutra. It brings out the hidden heart of the Sutras and leaves no room for lust in our hearts.”
Q. Do we have to take shelter of a guru to make spiritual progress? Is it not possible to simply follow the instructions of previous acaryas?
A. Guru is required. One who actually takes shelter of purva acaryas will be clear on this point from reading their books. One who has found faith should associate with devotees. Within such sadhu sanga one will find one's guru. At that time the candidate can receive the diksa mantra and tailored instructions on spiritual practice. To disregard the guru is gururavajna, an offense to the holy name of Krsna. One who does not take initiation from a guru and does not follow his or her guidance disregards the guru and Sri Krsna's system of guru, sri guru-parampara (lit. one guru after another). Such a person can only chant namaparadha, chanting that is deemed offensive to Krsna nama.
Q. Provided that a sadguru's only motivation is to serve Krsna, can he or she make a mistake when dealing with disciples? Can the guru be blamed for the improprieties of the disciples?
A. From the spiritual point of view, a sadguru cannot make a mistake. One living in the embrace of the Absolute has perfected one's life. Perfection in this case means one is doing everything for Krsna with no ulterior motive and seeing everything in relation to him. Such a person cannot be blamed if some disciples fail to follow perfectly.
However, persons who are in material consciousness may deprecate a sadguru, thinking him or her to be the same as any other person. In their relative world, a sadguru may not appear perfect, but neither is their world perfect. In their world, all concepts of correctness are relative because they are based on time, circumstance, and imperfect information. Everything in the relative world is in constant flux, including one's understanding of reality, truth, and perfection.
Bhagavad-gita defines reality and truth as that which does not change, and perfection as complete surrender to Krsna. A person whose only motivation is to serve Krsna is indeed situated in ultimate reality, beyond the relativity of time and circumstance.
Q. Throughout creation there appears to be male/female dyads such as Radha-Krsna, Laksmi-Narayana, and Siva-Parvati. Does Lord Balarama, catur-vyuha, Maha Visnu, Paramatma, and so on, each have their own consorts?
A. The Lord is always accompanied by his feminine counterpart. She assists Visnu as Laksmidevi and is typically depicted as massaging his lotus feet when he appears in the material world as Maha Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu, and Ksirodaksayi Visnu (Paramatma). Similarly, she is with the catur-vyuha, or four forms of Visnu in Vaikuntha. In the catur-vyuha that expands for lila in Goloka, she is also present as Rukmini (with Vasudeva Krsna), Revati (with Sankarsana), and so on.
Q. I heard that the Visnu aspect of Krsna carried out the killing of demons in Vraja. How are we to understand this?
A. Krsna's quality of lila madhurya refers to his sweet pastimes of love in Vraja. Krsna is God in love, and Vraja is the land of love. Krsna's killing of demons involves dealing with an outside influence, the demons that Kamsa sent to Vraja in an effort to kill Krsna. Because Krsna is God in love, it is said that the Visnu aspect within him killed those demons. Visnu is God in management of universal affairs, thus he is involved with the administration of justice and the protection of dharma. However, it is also said that Krsna himself gave those demons liberation, which illustrates that mercy and love are above justice and dharma. The killing of demons are occasional pastimes that are only exhibited in Krsna's prakata, or manifest, lila on Earth.
Q. It is said that Lord Brahma appeared as Haridasa Thakura in Caitanya-lila. I understand that Sri Krsna can appear simultaneously in many forms and expansions, but in Gaudiya Vaisnavism Lord Brahma is believed to be a jiva (individual soul) so how could he could appear as Haridasa and act as Brahma at the same time?
A. It is said that Lord Brahma appeared as Haridasa Thakura in Caitanya-lila. I understand that Sri Krsna can appear simultaneously in many forms and expansions, but in Gaudiya Vaisnavism Lord Brahma is believed to be a jiva (individual soul) so how could he could appear as Haridasa and act as Brahma at the same time?
A. If Lord Brahma leaves his post to appear in Caitanya-lila as Thakura Haridasa, this would involve a very short leave of absence given that the sastras say that a lifetime on earth is less than a moment of Brahma's time.
Jiva souls do sometimes appear in perfection in two forms, one suitable for Krsna-lila and one suitable for Caitanya-lila.
Q. In Sri Caitanya-caritamrta there is a story of how the Brahmas from different universes visited Krsna in Dvaraka. In that story the Brahma representing our universe had only four heads while the Brahmas from other universes had up to a million heads. Those Brahmas addressed the Lord in plural as “we” even though it said in the story that none of the Brahmas could see one another. How are we to understand “a million heads” as well as this contradiction in the story?
A. The sentence you are concerned with, tara kahe,—'tomara prasade sarvatra-i jaya, can be translated “They (the Brahmas) said, 'By your mercy there is victory everywhere.' “ Technically there is no “we” in the sentence.
Regarding the many heads of the different Brahmas, don't become negatively preoccupied with these kinds of unimaginable details. Everything in scripture need not be taken literally. In Latin the word centi means one hundred and mill means one thousand, yet the centipede does not have a hundred legs nor does the millipede have one thousand legs. These insects are named such simply because they each have anamazing amount of legs. Similarly, when the different Brahmas are said to have 100, 1,000, 10,000, or more heads, this is a way of saying that their individual universes were progressively larger and larger and more and more amazing. The idea being that the more heads they have the larger and more amazingly complex were their respective universes.
To most the idea of a million heads may be unimaginable, but this is no reason to conclude that such things are absolutely impossible. To do so would superimpose a limitation on the wonders of the universe. In our everyday experience of nature and life itself, there is so much mystery, so much that we cannot understand, and so much yet to experience. Why then should we think that we have already somehow come to know or conceive of every fascinating miracle that the material manifestation has to offer? Although the scripture sometimes speaks allegorically, the Vedic description of expanding material universes on multiple levels of existence, occupied by countless variegated species of plants, animals, human and supernatural beings, rings true to many even though the conception is indeed mind-boggling. More amazing than the temporary material manifestation is the eternal world of Krsna, which is described as adhoksaja—beyond the mind. Beyond the mind anything can happen.
The essential message of this story about the Brahmas is that Bhagavan Sri Krsna is beyond the mind of everyone, regardless of how intelligent or powerful someone may be. Also, no one, not even Lord Brahma, can fully comprehend the universe in which one lives, what to speak of the entire material manifestation, which is but the maya-sakti (illusory energy) of Sri Krsna. This Krsna, who is worshipped in millions of universes by millions of Brahmas and is a mystery to even the greatest Lord Brahma, appears in Vrndavana as a simple cowherd boy—the darling of Nanda and Yasoda. What could be more wonderful and mind-boggling than this?
Rather than trying to comprehend every unimaginable detail with the tiny conditioned mind, aspiring devotees should learn to experience the essence of these stories from Caitanya-caritamrta and the Bhagavatam through the association of advanced devotees. Such association breathes life into the unimaginable.
For further information refer to the following Sanga: Scripture: Literal and Allegorical
Q. Because Sri Balarama participated in the rasa dance, does he have a primary expansion of his pleasure potency in the same way that Lord Krsna expands his pleasure potency as Sri Radha?
A. Balarama does not participate in the sarad purnima rasa lila of Radha-Krsna. His rasa dance takes place with his own gopis, at Rama ghat in the spring. Our sampradaya does not speak of his gopi lila in any depth, but prefers to depict him in light of his devotion to Krsna as guru (elder), friend, and servant, kabhu guru, kabhu sakha, kabhu bhrtya-lila. Indeed, it emphasizes his respectful encounter with Krsna's gopis when he visited Vrndavana on Krsna's behalf—rama-sandarsanadrtah—more than his dancing with his own gopis.
In Balarama's encounter with Krsna's gopis, it is stated, sankarsanas tah krsnasya sandesair hrdayam-gamaih: Sankarsana delivered a message that was confidential. He spoke to the hearts of Krsna's gopis. Why is Balarama called Sankarsana in this verse? Because sankarsana means to draw together and here Sankarsana was drawing Krsna and the gopis together. Even though Krsna was in Dvaraka, Balarama's confidential talks with Krsna's gopis made Krsna fully manifest in the hearts and minds of the gopis. In this exchange, Balarama has the mood of a servitor of Krsna. He is fully representing Krsna with no desire to enjoy Radha's group for himself in any way.
For the most part, when the Bhagavata speaks of Balarama's affairs with his own gopis it does so covertly, as we find in 10.15.8 where Krsna says, gopyo 'ntarena bhujayor. In this phrase, Krsna speaks overtly of Balarama embracing forest vines and covertly of his future lila in which he embraces his own gopis, as this phrase can be read to indicate that Balarama embraces either creepers or milkmaids.
As for his principal consort, from Bhagavatam we know of Revati in Balarama's Dvaraka lila. From the literature of the six Goswamis of Vrndavana we also know that he manifests as sakti-tattva in the form of Ananga manjari, the younger sister of Radha. It is only in this form that he directly participates in Radha and Krsna's romantic affairs.
Q. Should a devotee still contaminated by lust read the rasa lila pastimes of Krsna found in the tenth canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam?
A. Pujyapada B. R. Sridhara Maharaja once spoke of how a sannyasi from another lineage confided in him that at times he experienced that his mind was tinged with lust. At that time Sridhara Maharaja suggested to him that he read the rasa pancadhyaya (five chapters of the Bhagavata's rasa-lila).
The sober Sridhara Swami of antiquity, so highly regarded by Sri Caitanya, has called the rasa pancadhyaya “Kama-vijaya,” victory over lust. The text itself concludes with this weighty advice:
bhaktim param bhagavati pratilabhya kamam hrd-rogam asv apahinoty acirena dhirah
“Hearing the rasa-lila with firm faith, one will attain bhakti, quickly become sober, and remedy the heart disease of lust.”
As we develop firm faith in the guru-parampara and engage in serious spiritual practice, we should try to absorb ourselves in the descriptions of Krsna-lila depicted in Srimad-Bhagavatam. They have great power, which attests to their veracity. Live in the poetic world of Srimad-Bhagavatam, nasta prayesu abhadresu nityam bhagavata sevaya. Study the book with your intellect. It is a commentary on the logic of Vedanta-sutra, artho 'yam brahma sutranam. It brings out the hidden heart of the Sutras (the heart of Krsna) and leaves no room for lust in our hearts. Hearing the pastimes of Krsna in conjunction with following the instructions of Sri Guru will in time bring the heart to swell with love for Krsna and his pure-hearted devotees.
Replies
Tripurari Swami is a follower also of HH Sridhara Swami. We here are not so much, generally, though Maharajah has many deep insights into bhakti we may benefit from. One example follows;
Jagannath-dev [Braja-rasa in Dwaraka]
by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja
They wanted to know about His pastimes there with the Gopis, and to hear the descriptions from His childhood.
Balaram’s mother Rohini had lived in Vrndavan during Krsna’s childhood, and although she is situated in vatsalya-rasa (parental relationship), she had heard many things about Krsna’s Lila with the Gopis. So meeting her privately the Queens requested her, “Please describe Krsna’s madhuryya-lila in Vrndavan to us. “Rohini was unable to avoid the Queens’ sincere request, and so posting Krsna’s sister Subhadra to keep watch, she began to narrate about His Lila with the Milkmaids of Vraja.
It so happened that at that same time, Krsna and Balaram were taking rest in a nearby room, and as Rohini was describing the Vrndavan-lila, They became aware of what was taking place. Coming to the door where Subhadra was standing guard, Krsna and Balaram could hear the talk of Rohini, and remembering Vrndavan, the Gopis and all these things, a great intensity of feeling came over Them. A great change of feeling came over Krsna and Balaram, so great that Their bodies also began to change; just as Mahaprabhu had shown when He fell at the gate of the Jagannath Mandir and His arms and legs entered into His body.
Such a change in the body is possible according to some particular feeling of ecstasy, and feeling the ecstasy of Vrndavan, Krsna and Balaram were undergoing such a transformation. And Subhadra, although She had not lived in Vrndavan, seeing Her Brothers in this way, She also experienced some sort of sympathetic transformation. Internally that feeling came to Her and externally She was also transformed. The cause of Their disfiguration was the Vrndavan statement of Rohini. Remembering that Vrndavan-lila and feeling that, such change came in Their goodies. Suddenly the group of Rohini could understand that Krsna and Balaram were there listening to their talk, and so immediately they stopped.
The Lila thus suspended, the disfigured formation of Krsna remained, and He fell into a trance. Nothing could be done to reverse the situation, and so in desperation Krsna was taken to the Nava-Vrndavan; a replica of Vrndavan that had been created in Dwaraka by Brahma for Krsna’s pleasure. Although Krsna was awake He could not come out of that mentality, that trance, until He could be taken to that Nava-Vrndavan. There in His trance He could only see Baladev, and all others present were eliminated from His vision. Seeing Baladev, Krsna was happy that He was in Vrndavan.
Then He was Rohini, “Oh yes, it is Vrndavan.” Mannequins of all the other residents of Vrndavan were also arranged there, and the Queens were following from a distance to see what will happen. After seeing Baladev, Krsna sees His cowherd friends Sridam and Sudam are also there. In another part the Gopis are there, and in one part Srimati Radharani is standing. Seeing Her mannequin Krsna ran and embraced Her, and when Satyabhama saw this, some disfigurement also came in Her body. While Krsna was in this temperament, Baladev was able to go to Him and gradually he was able to bring Krsna back to the consciousness of Dwaraka. The sudden stopping of His experience of Vrndavan caused His condition and only by a gradual process, His mentality was again taken to Dwaraka.
This sort of tale is there, and when Dwaraka and Vrndavan mix, that is Jagannath. He is mainly in Dwaraka, but the posing of Vrndavan is there. He has infinite forms of Lila, so what can we trace or know with our finite capacity? In Dwaraka-Samhita we find that there was an arrangement of Rasa-lila in Dwaraka also. The Queens had heard that in Vrndavan there was the Rasa-lila and that it is most wonderful. So when on one occasion the whole Vrndavan party was invited to Dwaraka, they privately approached Krsna and petitioned Him, “The Gopis have come, and for a long time it is our hearts’ desire that you will show Your Rasa-lila to us.
"Will You request them?” Krsna replied, “If they will give their consent then I have no objection.” The Queens made their request to the Gopis and the Rasa-lila was arranged. When it was complete, all that saw it were astonished, and the Queens went to the camp of the Gopis to express their wonder. “What we have seen is the most wonderful thing, it is impossible to conceive even. We cannot properly express such a thing.” And Srimati Radharani made this statement in reply, “What have you seen? That was nothing – an almost dead representation. Where is the Yamuna?
Where is the kadamba tree, the peacock, the deer, and all these things? There in Vrndavan that was a natural stage, and that was performed there in our youth. What you saw, that is nothing, a sham, a mere mockery.” Then the Queens began to reflect, “If what we saw is of such lower order, then what type of superior quality Lila must be found in the Original? It is totally inconceivable.” So the psychology of Vrndavan is all important. The attraction for that Vrndavan-lila – when that was suddenly stopped the result was a great change in the physical plane.
Of course it is not physical, but for the purpose of explanation we can say physical. That check caused the disfigurement of the external plane. It is something like when there is an earthquake. The internal movement of the Earth disfigures the surface, so the internal disturbance that was created by the recollection of Vrndavan-lila, that caused a great transformation in the superficial appearance. And when that was suddenly checked, that appearance remained. That has been pictured and shown in Jagannathdev. When the higher prospect is suddenly checked, then the reaction comes.
So Jagannath is a reactionary stage between Vrndavan and Dwaraka. The conflict between the emotion of Swayam Bhagavan and the Vaibhava-vilas of Krsna It is something like rasabhas. In higher ecstasy also, rasabhas is possible. The clash of two different waves of rasa. The train may be proceeding in a particular motion and the carriage along with it. But if suddenly the train should brake, then the contents inside the carriage will be thrown into a great disorder. It is something like that.
adau yad dvaro ‘plavate, sindhuh parer apaurusam
This verse says that the Jagannath murti has been there from the very conception, from the most ancient time. So every Lila of the Lord is eternal. Every part of the infinite is eternal. In the beginning of Mahabharat there is “Dhrtarastra-vilap”, and there Dhrtarastra is naming the main incidents of Mahabharat, and lamenting that, “Because of this incident and that incident I know that my party must be defeated”. But at this stage of Mahabharat none of these incidents had taken place. So how can Dhrtarastra speak of these incidents at the beginning of the narration?
It is because it is nitya, eternal. The beginning of the Lila and the end of the Lila cannot be differentiated. It is in a cyclic order and it is eternal. That is a very difficult thing to understand. To adjust to the eternal. Everywhere beginning, everywhere end. Everywhere there is centre and nowhere is there circumference. This is the meaning of infinite. This is Nitya-lila. Everywhere beginning, everywhere end, and all coexistent at the same time. Krsnadas Kaviraj Goswami has represented this in a particular way. He has given the example that the sunrise is to be found always in one place or another. Not it is here, now there, and so on in this way.
So like the sun Krsna-lila is moving, the birth, the childhood, being shown here and then extended to another brahmanda, another universe. That is the aspect of Bhauma-lila. And in another aspect, in Goloka, we find that every Lila is also nitya. It is reflected here in this world and the reflection is revolving like the sun. It may be traced here, now here, now there – a question of space, but in Goloka, in the central place it is all there simultaneously. It is also no less in the heart of the devotees. When a devotee remembers a Lila, it may be Vraja-lila, and now Dwaraka-lila, but what is reflected in the heart of a devotee, that is also true. So in this way it is coexistent and it is continuing always. Every Lila and every part of Lila is always present, coexistent. Succession and coexistence both harmonized.
Devotee: Maharaj, is Guru-parampara also part of Lila?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Of course. It is the Lila of Krsna. But not only that, Maya and everything else is included in Lila from His standpoint. It is His sweet will, His independence.
“Everything is in Me, yet nothing is in Me. I am everywhere and I am nowhere.” Everything will come within this conception. He can even interfere with the free will of the jiva, but still He doesn’t. He is within and He can control, yet He does not. He may choose not to control. He has this independence. This sort of conception we shall have to indent. This is the conception of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and this is what separates His conception from the Hegelian philosophy and the philosophy of Aurobindo. Maya is not a necessary part of existence, and by Krsna’s will Maya may be finished, and if He is desires, again recreated.
He can make or marr. Bhaktivinoda Thakur has written in his Tattva-sutra, that by His will, even the existence of the jiva-soul may be extinguished. This is not the general case, but still Absolute Power is with Him. Everything is designed and destined by Him, that is the expression of swarup-sakti.
Chaitanya-lila is the Infinite sweetness from Chaitanya – whatever is within and whatever is coming from Him, that is all the high nectar of Krsna-lila and nothing else. Chaitanya-lila means the centre from which Krsna-lila flows in different forms, oozing from all sides and even from every pore. Nothing but Radha-Krsna-lila, Braja-lila embodied in Him, and coming out to help the public. The voluntary distribution of Krsna-lila of different nectarine tastes; that is Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
He has no separate existence from the Nama, Guna, Rupa, and Lila of Krsna, Radha-Krsna, and this includes Yasoda and all others within the relativity of Krsna. If one is there then all others must necessarily be there. So Krsna-lila means Krsna with His group. Also Vrndavan – the water, the forest, the animals, the birds, all are included in Krsna-lila, Braja-lila. And that and nothing else is all coming from Sri Chaitanya. That is Radha-Krsna in self distributing nature. Whatever comes from Him – that is all Krsna. Even in Sri Chaitanya’s childhood, when one could not trace anything of Krsna, it was there, and in different ways He was creating the background for distributing Krsna-lila to others.
This sound “Krsna” what is its value? Srila Rupa Goswami has explained that Krsna has four unique, special qualities. Every jiva has fifty innate qualities. Certain devatas have fifty-five, the five additional qualities partially manifest in them. Sri Narayan has sixty qualities in full, and Krsna has four more qualities not found in Narayan. Those four qualities are: rupa-madhurya (sweet form), venu-madhurya (sweet flute), lila-madhurya (sweet pastimes), and parikara-madhurya (sweet associates). Srila Rupa Goswami has established the speciality of Krsna-lila in this way. And this is only found in Vrndavan. Vasudev-Krsna has no flute, and it has been mentioned that even Dwarakesa-Krsna is charmed to search for the rupa-madhuryaof Vrndavan-Krsna, the sweet Lord of Braja, Reality the Beautiful.
Srila Bhakti Raksaka
Sridhara Maharaja Page