International Orthodox and Reformed Societies for Krsna / Krishna Consciousness versus SPI

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

By His Grace Krishna Kirti Dasa

This is what a friend suggested an ISKCON of the future might look like, as bifurcated by the divergent tendencies of each group towards traditionalism and progressivism.

I suggest that perhaps like other churches ISKCON may want to split up into these two. In other words why not have International Society for Krsna Consciousness (Orthodox), and International Society for Krsna Consciousness (Reformed)
Both could be parts of the same society and be governed by a common (orthodox) GBC or there could be a real split and there could be a separation or dividing up of properties and separate governing bodies constituted.

These terms are non-political non-threatening and are the ones that most Churches use. Both have an air of respectability about them.

ISKCON (Orthodox)

Non-Democratic (Social Hierarchy of Varnas and Ashrams)
Patriarchical
No meat, fish or eggs and many other restrictions based on smritis.
No Spiritual Divorce (Legal Divorce OK, Separation OK, Remarriage OK, so that members can be polygamous and/or polyandrous in societies where this is not legal, once married always considered by Church as spouses, responsible for each other and children.)
No Dating. Arranged Marriages preferred.
No Contraception except abstinence.
No Abortion.
No taking of Varnaprastha or Sannyasa without providing for wife and family.
Tighter interpretation of other principles, investment/speculation/lottery tickets, etc. = gambling; tobacco, tea, coffee, chocolate, prescription drugs, etc = intoxication (as well as other illegal drugs).

Strict adherence to Vedic standards and Church rules required for membership. Breaking of standards and Church rules requires prayascitta and/or punishment by authorities. Excommunication for non-compliance. Reinstatement of membership after repentance, punishment, sastric prayascitta and long grace period.
Emphasis on minimum 16 rounds of japa and strict daily attendance of Temple program.

Church aims at having all members take harinam and diksha. Members who remain without any diksha will not be allowed to hold any Church office or lead any Church gathering or program (lecture, kirtan, cook, etc). Thus respect amongst members is based upon formal diksha as well as scriptural knowledge and strict adherence to Vedic standards.

Church structure: GBC members must be held to a very high Vedic standard (the standard for GBC must be more than for any other position, sannyasa, guru, whatever) and must immediately be removed for non-adherence. GBC then authorizes other positions, like TPs, Sannyasa, Guru, etc. All positions appointed from the top down.

Comment by Tamohara dasa just now

ISKCON (Reform)

Democratic
Egalitarian
No meat, fish or eggs.
Spiritual Divorce and Remarriage OK (Monogamy including Gay Monogamy OK)
Dating one prospective spouse at a time OK. Relationships arranged by individuals.
Prevention of conception methods OK.
No Abortion.

Looser interpretation of other principles. Casino gambling and drinking of hard liquor forbidden (as well as hard drugs) (beer and wine acceptable in private moderation). Distain for those who smoke or use tobacco and/or marijuana (public smoking unacceptable). Other lesser forms considered acceptable (practically harmless).
Public adherence to Local State Laws required for membership. Public breaking of principles requires member to confess the sin and thus be forgiven. Excommunication only for leading others astray and engaging them in extremely sinful and/or illegal conduct. Reinstatement of membership after confession, expression of repentance and short grace period.

Emphasis on kirtan/bhajan and Sunday Temple attendance. Other sadhana encouraged but not required.

Church encourages members to take at least harinam. Members who remain without any diksha should accept siksha from SP’s teachings or a siksha guru. Members who are simply Siksha disciples of SP (without any formal diksha) can be given as much respect and position as those with formal diksha (this would be akin to rtvikism). Thus respect amongst members is based solely on observable devotion and advancement.

Church structure: Temple Presidents elected by congregations. GBC elected by TPs. Bottom up Democratic system. Sannyasins accepted by sannyasa assembly and ministry. No objection to Sannyasins or Gurus by GBC unless there is a history of extremely sinful and/or illegal behavior on the part of the individual.

Comment by Tamohara dasa just now

spi

traditional and liberal in application and mercy

bottom up democracy as SP gave us, as purified and applied practically by the local TP and devotees. TPs recommend for diksa Prabhupada, first and second. Devotees learn also from many siksa, the Prabhupada literatures, and each other.  There is no requirement  for the ritvik priest to be a pure advanced maha-bhagavata, but must be a sincere Prabhupada disciple and elected to a position of such service, for a term.

When the organization grows, GBCs may be appointed, with only moral authority, no actual power or control of funds etc. That lies in the hands of the temple officers/admin. and the TP.

Ritvik process and any bonafide new spiritual masters are equal. (Ex Srila Gour Govinda Maharajah)

We are in general for empowering the poor brahmanas and the people, bypassing the hierarchical Illuminati-controlled structures. We wish to carry on the mission of our Spiritual Master, Srila Prabhupada, and believe he would not compromise by accepting big big money from demoniac elites, kings and queens, and elevated karmis, as a servant, just as Mahaprabhu avoided associaton of rich men and elites even in His Divine pastimes.

By His Grace Krishna Kirti Dasa

This is what a friend suggested an ISKCON of the future might look like, as bifurcated by the divergent tendencies of each group towards traditionalism and progressivism.

I suggest that perhaps like other churches ISKCON may want to split up into these two. In other words why not have International Society for Krsna Consciousness (Orthodox), and International Society for Krsna Consciousness (Reformed)
Both could be parts of the same society and be governed by a common (orthodox) GBC or there could be a real split and there could be a separation or dividing up of properties and separate governing bodies constituted.

These terms are non-political non-threatening and are the ones that most Churches use. Both have an air of respectability about them.

ISKCON (Orthodox)

Non-Democratic (Social Hierarchy of Varnas and Ashrams)
Patriarchical
No meat, fish or eggs and many other restrictions based on smritis.
No Spiritual Divorce (Legal Divorce OK, Separation OK, Remarriage OK, so that members can be polygamous and/or polyandrous in societies where this is not legal, once married always considered by Church as spouses, responsible for each other and children.)
No Dating. Arranged Marriages preferred.
No Contraception except abstinence.
No Abortion.
No taking of Varnaprastha or Sannyasa without providing for wife and family.
Tighter interpretation of other principles, investment/speculation/lottery tickets, etc. = gambling; tobacco, tea, coffee, chocolate, prescription drugs, etc = intoxication (as well as other illegal drugs).

Strict adherence to Vedic standards and Church rules required for membership. Breaking of standards and Church rules requires prayascitta and/or punishment by authorities. Excommunication for non-compliance. Reinstatement of membership after repentance, punishment, sastric prayascitta and long grace period.
Emphasis on minimum 16 rounds of japa and strict daily attendance of Temple program.

Church aims at having all members take harinam and diksha. Members who remain without any diksha will not be allowed to hold any Church office or lead any Church gathering or program (lecture, kirtan, cook, etc). Thus respect amongst members is based upon formal diksha as well as scriptural knowledge and strict adherence to Vedic standards.

Church structure: GBC members must be held to a very high Vedic standard (the standard for GBC must be more than for any other position, sannyasa, guru, whatever) and must immediately be removed for non-adherence. GBC then authorizes other positions, like TPs, Sannyasa, Guru, etc. All positions appointed from the top down.

[Tamohara dasa]

ISKCON (Reform)

Democratic
Egalitarian
No meat, fish or eggs.
Spiritual Divorce and Remarriage OK (Monogamy including Gay Monogamy OK)
Dating one prospective spouse at a time OK. Relationships arranged by individuals.
Prevention of conception methods OK.
No Abortion.

Looser interpretation of other principles. Casino gambling and drinking of hard liquor forbidden (as well as hard drugs) (beer and wine acceptable in private moderation). Distain for those who smoke or use tobacco and/or marijuana (public smoking unacceptable). Other lesser forms considered acceptable (practically harmless).
Public adherence to Local State Laws required for membership. Public breaking of principles requires member to confess the sin and thus be forgiven. Excommunication only for leading others astray and engaging them in extremely sinful and/or illegal conduct. Reinstatement of membership after confession, expression of repentance and short grace period.

Emphasis on kirtan/bhajan and Sunday Temple attendance. Other sadhana encouraged but not required.

Church encourages members to take at least harinam. Members who remain without any diksha should accept siksha from SP’s teachings or a siksha guru. Members who are simply Siksha disciples of SP (without any formal diksha) can be given as much respect and position as those with formal diksha (this would be akin to rtvikism). Thus respect amongst members is based solely on observable devotion and advancement.

Church structure: Temple Presidents elected by congregations. GBC elected by TPs. Bottom up Democratic system. Sannyasins accepted by sannyasa assembly and ministry. No objection to Sannyasins or Gurus by GBC unless there is a history of extremely sinful and/or illegal behavior on the part of the individual.

[Tamohara dasa]

spi

traditional and liberal in application and mercy

bottom up democracy as SP gave us, as purified and applied practically by the local TP and devotees. TPs recommend for diksa Prabhupada, first and second. Devotees learn also from many siksa, the Prabhupada literatures, and each other.  There is no requirement  for the ritvik priest to be a pure advanced maha-bhagavata, but must be a sincere Prabhupada disciple and elected to a position of such service, for a term.

When the organization grows, GBCs may be appointed, with only moral authority, no actual power or control of funds etc. That lies in the hands of the temple officers/admin. and the TP.

Ritvik process and any bonafide new spiritual masters are equal. (Ex Srila Gour Govinda Maharajah)

We are in general for empowering the poor brahmanas and the people, bypassing the hierarchical Illuminati-controlled structures. We wish to carry on the mission of our Spiritual Master, Srila Prabhupada, and believe he would not compromise by accepting big big money from demoniac elites, kings and queens, and elevated karmis, as a servant, just as Mahaprabhu avoided associaton of rich men and elites even in His Divine pastimes.