Q: There have been some very powerful spiritual teachers who seem to have been driven by the impure motives of the ego. Do you think that spiritual experiences could at times empower the ego rather than destroy it?
Amma: Amma doesn’t agree that those teachers to whom you are referring are realized. A Self-realized master is completely independent. Such beings don’t have to depend on anything external for their happiness because they are full of bliss, which they derive from within their own Atman. Amma would say that everyone forms part of a crowd, except the realized masters. In fact, except for those rare souls, there are no individuals. Only one who is realized is uniquely individual and totally independent of the crowd. Only such a soul is alone in the world of bliss.
True spiritual masters have to set an example through their actions and their lives. Those who abuse their position and power, taking advantage of others, obviously do not derive all their happiness and contentment from within themselves, and so they cannot be realized masters. Why would a realized master crave adulation or power? Those who do are still under the grip of the ego. They may claim to be realized, but they are not. A perfect master doesn’t claim anything. He simply is—he is presence.
Until the moment before realization takes place, a person is not safe from the temptations of his or her desires.
Q: So would you say that people like this have become more proud as a result of having had spiritual experiences? Can spiritual experiences at times strengthen the ego in a negative way?
Amma: The people to whom this happens are deluded, and they confuse others as well. They will actually push others into delusion. Some people gain a glimpse of something, or have a spiritual experience, and then think they have attained moksha. Only someone who is not realized will think, “I am spiritual, I am realized,” and this will create a strong, subtle ego. A subtle ego is more dangerous than a gross ego. Even the individuals themselves won’t understand that the subtle ego is leading or motivating them, and this subtle ego will become part of their nature. Such people will do anything for name and fame.
Amma also feels that this kind of pride makes people lose their capacity to listen. And listening is extremely important on the spiritual path. A person who does not listen cannot be humble. And it is only when we are truly humble that the already existing pure Consciousness will be unfolded within us. Only one who is humbler than the humblest can be considered greater than the greatest.
Q: Since it is possible for spiritual experiences to feed the ego, is it necessary to cultivate purity first?
Amma: There is no need to get obsessed with purity. Focus on your dharma, performing it with the right attitude and with love. Then purity will follow.
Q: What is dharma, in the way you are using it?
Amma: Dharma is the right action in the right place at the right time.
Q: How can one know what one’s dharma is?
Amma: By loving life with the right attitude and having the right understanding, we will know what the right thing to do is. And then, if we perform our dharma, purity will come.
Q: How do you cultivate that kind of love?
Amma: Love isn’t something that can be cultivated—it’s already within us in all its fullness. Life cannot exist without love; they are inseparable. Life and love are not two; they are one and the same. A little bit of the proper channeling of your energies will awaken the love within you.
You need to have a strong intent to reach the goal of liberation; you need to be focused on that goal. Then such qualities as love, patience, enthusiasm and optimism will spring forth within you. These qualities will work to help you attain your goal.
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