Your servant, B. Radha-Govinda

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Bhagavat wrote this account (stating that he was present) when this case below regarding child molestation was brought to Srila Prabhupada's attention:

http://www.chakra.org/discussions/GurSep07_04.html

Posted September 7, 2004 on Chakra.
FROM Bhagavat Das

Can a child molester come to an ISKCON temple?
by Bhagavat das

"...If ISKCON had followed at least the first example Srila Prabhupada set for us in this regard we would at least have made an important statement to the children that we did not tolerate child abuse.

I was in Allahabad in 1977 when Srila Prabhupada was at the Kumbha Mela. During that time one of the first known child molesters was caught in Vrindaban and brought to Allahabad to be judged by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada curled his lips in disgust and shook his head in great disbelief as he was told how this disciple of his sexually molested practically every child in the Gurukula. Srila Prabhupada was so disgusted that on his order he told the GBC and others who were in the room that this boy should never for any reason be allowed in any of our temples ever again. When questioned about the severity of the sentence Srila Prabhupada said on occasion the boy could come to a temple for the Sunday feast and take prasadam. Unfortunately, after Srila Prabhupada left this child molester found his way back into our temples. I would always complain whenever I saw him somewhere but usually to no avail. "He is doing service prabhu" is what I was told as the authorities disregarded the words of my Guru Maharaja. I finally told some grown up Gurukulis the story in Alachua and the next time he came around he was warned to leave ISKCON and never return or else. I heard recently he is in our temples in India, some things never change.

Based on Srila Prabhupada's personal handling of the situation I feel ISKCON has no other recourse than to make the following policy: If a person is caught as a child molester in or out of our temples

1) that person should be reported to the proper authorities

2) that person should never for any reason be allowed in any of our temples ever again except on occasion for a Sunday feast.

That was Srila Prabhupada's instruction and it should be followed without change or hesitation. If the person happens to be a pot washer or an ex-guru the punishment should be the same. Since the child who has been molested will feel the same scars no matter what the position of the perpetrator is or was. I hope this teaching of Srila Prabhupada has shed some light on the proper way to handle some of the apparent controversial situations that have arisen lately."

Your servant, 

B. Radha-Govinda 

Hare Krsna

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, Srimukunda dasa <[e-mail]> wrote:

From: Srimukunda dasa <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: None Dare Call it a Yadu-Jew [cock]roach Sambradaya Eclipse ie Rahu Consp...
To: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 11:43 AM

 

All you crazy Hare Krishnas  hang on every word of Prabhupada.  Here Yasoda, your "Prabhupadanuga Leader"  tells first hand that Prabhupada knew about abuse but hid it from everyone...  Prabhupada hid abuse from parents, media and public, and Yasoda admits Prabhupada did not want the molester kicked out.  Prabhupada wanted to harbor child molesters.  Your leader Yasoda admits Prabhupada knew about and hid child molseters.  All the nonsense and criminal activity of ISKCON can be traced directly back yo your "Prabhupada"  your "Pure Devotee"

By Damagosha dasa ( married underage girl)

“Yasoda nandan told me a story once that someone in one of Prabhupada’s Indian temples was caught in the act of child sex, and the catching devotees asked Yasoda nandan what to do? Should they beat him up and kick him out?
Prabhupada personally told Yasoda in 1977 at the Kumbha mela in Prayag – that if he was to kick out any devotee ever doing any sinful acts, then he would have no devotees left in the movement!!! The devotees involved with the capture of this person, Yasoda conjectured, probably beat the person up and threw him out. But that was not the attitude that Srila Prabhupada took about anybody who wanted to do some service for Krishna. He considered him not an ordinary soul and should be encouraged and corrected – but not banned or kicked out.”

Here you can see that Damagosha and Yasodanandan feel that pedophilia is not a reason to remove someone from a temple, and they feel that instruction is coming directly from Srila Prabhupada. They say it was not the attitude of Srila Prabhupada to throw out a molester of children. They are admitting this is a deep-rooted teaching of ISKCON and Prabhupada. That tolerance MUST be shown to pedophiles and abusers. and yet they condemn those who might drink coffee, smoke pot, eat an onion or watch a movie. What a bunch of dangerous psychopaths.

---

From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Sent: Saturday, October 6, 2012 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: None Dare Call it a Yadu-Jew [cock]roach Sambradaya Eclipse ie Rahu Consp...

Dear Muktipada

 

Hare Krsna

 

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

  I suppose that that was one way of responding to my request for you to tell me a little something about yourself before before I seriously consider your request. I thank youy however for putting me on the trail of the mega hypocrisy of Puranjana. I must confess that I had never bothered to familiarize myself with the actual test of the complaint of the Windle-Turly Law suit which basically placed all of the guru-kulis as well as Puranjana behind this:

 

"37. The founder of the institution, Prabhupada, was informed in 1972, at a time when he totally controlled the institution, that extensive physical and sexual abuse of minor ISKCON children was occurring, but he concealed the wrongdoing from the public, parents and all but a handful of close advisors."

 

The greatest abuse of the guru-kulis was in making them or encouraging them to believe that Srila Prabhupada knew that the abuses were occurring but did nothing to stop them for fear that by so doing that he would endanger the success of his movement.

 

That Puranjana would get behind such an offensive notion which accomplishes the greatest victimization of the guru-kulis by robbing them of their heritage and lifes greatest meaning while at one and the same time posing as being one of Srila Prabhupadas greatest supporters is the height of hypocrisy. He has sold out Srila Prabhupada for penny, some momentary fame and false prestiege.

 

I would very much appreciate it if you or anyone else could put me on to the origin of these charges. If you truly wish to work together as you suggest then I think that we could think of no better place to start than by disproving these claims convincingly to the guru-kulis and by so doing restoring their faith in Srila Prabhupada and in Lord Krsna to them.

 

Again, anyone who might have such information is invited to reply to me with it. I thank you very much.

 

                                        Ys George Smith

 

                   

 

 

In a message dated 10/4/2012 11:39:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [e-mail] writes:

Muktipada,

Take down the whole blog.  It’s trash.  Re-read everything I’ve already
said — the ‘whys’ are right there, in black & white. And don’t write to me again with the trash subject lines and messages. Next time we get a message like this, your email, and Voiths’ email addresses will all go into the spam killfile.  We’ll never see your incoming emails again, as they won’t be delivered by the mail server.  If that’s what you’re working towards, then just keep on with one more foul insult. [7:03 PM Oct 4, 2012]

Rocana, servant of the servant of the Ravindra-Radhanath cockroach sambradaya, Bob Dylan says in a rolling stone interview that what we perceive in others is what we really see in ourselves. By the way, all of us and our friends go to your site and are amazed at how it’s all a bunch of unmitigated garbage. Truely.

Paundraka was emboldened by the flattery of childish men, who told him, “You are Väsudeva, the Supreme Lord and master of the universe, who have now descended to the earth.” Thus he imagined himself to be the infallible Personality of Godhead. [Srimad Bhagavatam 10.66.2]

PURPORT

Paundraka foolishly accepted the flattery of ignorant persons. [SB 10.66.2]

Prabhupada: That is the duty of acarya. Otherwise he is not… Not that three dozen äcäryas in Mayapura. Each one has a temple and a few dozen… Not few dozen—one dozen disciples. Bring some rice and eat. They are äcärya. That day I said that, khäi laya khasi bhaja,(?) then everybody became angry. Collecting some money, taking to the holy place, collecting fifty rupees and keeping twenty rupees and spending thirty rupees. This is… In this way they are making livelihood, äcäryas. They say, “Whatever is in our capacity, we are doing.” The capacity means when they are speaking that the cockroach is as good a bird as the Garuda. Cockroach is also a bird and Garuda is also a bird.

Tamäla Krsna: Quite a difference, though.

Prabhupäda: How the cockroach can say “I am also as good as Garuòa”?

Tamäla Krsna: That is called insanity.

Prabhupäda: (laughs) So they want to say like that.

Tamäla Krsna: Garuda eats timiìgila fish as his diet.

Prabhupäda: No, he can eat. He flies from one planet to another. Just like one bird flies, he starts from one tree and takes rest another. The Garuòa bird, they do that. They start from one planet and take rest in another planet. This is their flying. And while flying, they lay down eggs, and the eggs, while falling down, become birds. By the heat. [Room Conversation April 10 1977]

Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers.Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room…. There is possibility.”Krsna…, tathä dehäntara-präptiù [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you’ll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don’t believe in the next life.

[June 11 1976 Los Angeles]

dear Rocana dasa. Please accept my humble obeisance’s. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I was very hurt to hear that you do not appreciate our work. I have taken down the article that I think you felt  was not up to standard that I sent you related to Henri. Yes, he very offensive, you know that as well as I, but that particular article I must admit was moronic.

I would like to ask you  if when you said “take down the blog” did you mean take down the entire blog or just the  article about Henri that I forwarded to you when I sent you the link about our new blog?  I am hoping that the blog is now closer to meeting with your approval. You have done painstaking work and put up with a lot of crap from people like Tim, as have I. I know what its like.

Your servant,

Muktipada dasa

——————————–

Dear Muktipada,

Hare Krsna.

Your letter of today is sane and civil, and appreciated.  But yesterday

you wrote:

>>”Now Srila Prabhupada is urinating on your demoniac face for writing

crap all over your Sambradaya Eclipse website and you cannot tolerate it

because you are envious of Srila Prabhupada and you want to kill him.”

Before we can proceed to have any sort of reasonable conversation, you’ll

need to explain the stark dichotomy between yesterday and today.

Otherwise, we can only assume that we are talking with someone who is

mentally ill.

ys,

Rocana dasa

——————————-

Dear Rocana dasa. Hare Krishna.

I have suffered tremendously as a result of Henri’s bile. After your suggestion to remove the blog altogether, I became very upset and took it out on you. Please help me understand why you think that we should take down the youjustkickonhisface.net blog. We are preaching Srila Prabhupada’s direct instructions on  dealing with miscreants like Radhanath and Kurt Mausert, who is fraudulently posing himself on Sambradaya Sun as a 25 year attorney at law under the name of Kirtan Rasa; A man who defended Ravindra Svarupa and Satsvarupa in prosecuting Stephen Voith/Sanat dasa for 17 months in Ithaca city court simply because the latter  burned Satsvarupa, Tamal, Ravindra, and Kirtanananda books publicly in front of Gita Nagari farm July 31st 1993, Gita Nagari Rathyatra day, (the very day Ravindra had sought to enjoy a Vyasapuja celebration for himself but which he cancelled at the last moment after Stephen wrote a letter to Satsvarupa threatening to burn his books if he didn’t come explain his false guru worship paradigm). Stephen Voith also published the Gita Nagari farm report and other documents exposing cow abuse, harboring of known child rapists at Ravindra’s and Satsvarupa’s centers, embezzlement of Adopt a Cow funds. There are reported death threats by Mausert and Ravindra on Stephen Voith for which there is a 184 page Extortionate FBI Investigation from August to December 1993- a report that coupled with Sulochan’s FBI file along with Stephen Voith’s (all of which documents will soon be put up on our blog as an article).

As you may recall, in 2006 you published many articles by Stephen Voith about his families struggle to protect cows in the village of Angelika New York while Tim Lee and many other psuedo Krishna’s attacked Stephen Voith, instead of supporting their fledgling family by coming and joining in civil disobedience demonstrations against the Chand Kazi’s of Angelika. However, when the big world Hindu organizations joined in and the story went viral all around the world including articles in the Hindu American foundations first hard copy newsletter, four stories across the New York Times, stories all over the Indian news press both in America and India, the Voice of America Story, of TV presentation presented on Janmastami day August 16 2006 to a audience of over 100 million throughout the Indian subcontinent. Suddenly all the so-called ISKCON and ISKCON critics went mysteriously silent. The articles that you published by Stephen Voith on your blog -and you can check them- were just as face kicking, straight line Prabhupada preaching against the great sinister cow exploitation movement of the world which Stephen also exposed within ISKCON under the auspices of Radhanath at New Vrndavan, (Kirtanananda’s decades-long handler) and Ravindranath at Gita Nagari, so why is it okay for you to publish those kinds of articles on Sambradaya Sun where Stephen Voith is kicking on cow exploitation in a general way in society, but when we put up a blog with the exact same type of preaching against the miscreants inside and out of ISKCON, then you tell us to take it down.

We are also upset and bewildered by Sambradaya Sun’s obvious contradiction in posting a link titled “Radhanath blows it again” around March 2012, which appears to glorify Radhanath, not condemn the raksasa. Could you please explain this to our satisfaction. We would also appreciate it if you posted our communications unedited on the Sambradaya Sun with a kind and forthcoming explanation. Thank you for your time and patience in communicating with me, prabhu. All glories to our Divine Master and Protector from the great sinister movement which he stated in a 1970 letter to Hansadutta was within our society; and with Sulochan Maharaj stated in his sublime GB expose had become the society.

PS: Regarding Prabhupada’s transcendental urination on your face, don’t you think that it’s a possibility that it could purify you or any of us of your anartha of putting up glorification of miscreants on your blog? Do you think Srila Prabhupada would put glorification of miscreants in Back to Godhead? Not only glorification, but give them space like Radhanath blowing his harmonica as though he is some mystical empowered personality when he is usurping Prabhupada’s position; do you really think that Prabhupada would allow that like “yeah, that’s okay” and the next month somebody else can challenge it? No, he wouldn’t. So in that sense, I think that Srila Prabhupada’s transcendental urine would cure you of that anartha or undesirable misunderstanding. I hope and pray that you will humbly accept this elated chastisement in the right light-trnad api sunicena since Chanakya Pandit says that good instruction can be accepted even from low class persons (such as my humble fallen spiritually undeveloped self).

Please take it in that light, my dear prabhu.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada and His Divine Cow Protection Program,

Muktipada dasa

————————

Dear Muktipada,

Hare Krsna.

Anyone who loves Srila Prabhupada has suffered as a result of Henry’s

bile.  You are not alone in that category.  Beyond that, your methodology

of kicking then stroking then kicking is useless… you destroy all rapport.

Nor are you paying any attention, or you would have understand that the

Sun is the single-most aggressive presence preaching against Radhanath.

“Radhanath Blows It Again” means just what it says…. he blew it, again….

he fell down into material nonsense again.  Just as all the Sun articles

and comments on that subject affirmed.  We think the harmonica playing is

a sham.  You are apparently just too obtuse to get the play on words.

The rest of your post we won’t re-read or reply to, what to speak of

publish.  If you want us to talk seriously with you, begin by following

Srila Prabhupada’s examples in your discourse and lose the trash-talk, and

the holier-than-thou mood.  You don’t have the potency to carry it.

your servant,

Rocana dasa

———————-

My dear Rocana dasa, though we share common enemies, somehow or other there is a severe disconnect in our preaching strategies. We are both in the attempt to preach Prabhupada Consciousness  to the human population on this planet in wake of the chaos that is reaped after Srila Prabhupada’s physical departure, which is not a simple task to undertake. However, I detect a philosophical deviation.

I spoke to you in detail of Stephen and Linda Voith’s ongoing, increasing, and severely austere  Krishna Conscious practices that they have dedicated themselves to completely with their heart, mind, and soul, for over the last 35 years. They have received little help with their struggle to protect cows, and despite their best efforts, have also gotten very minimal recognition from your humble self. I am perplexed by this.

We are facing imminent nuclear devastation. What are we to do? First thing is first. Don’t panic. Contact Srila Prabhupada through His books, beg  for His mercy like the salvation of your soul depends on it, and do all your best to continue with His mission. That is the best we can do, we came here for a reason. To enjoy our senses, now we realize we are in illusion.

Although I feel Stephen and Linda Voith have much to contribute to Sambradaya Sun, I feel like you treat them as if they are persona non grata. They don’t exist. They are non living entities that have no weight or baring to Sankirtan movement of Lord Chaitanya!  Why? They, among none  else but Stephen Bryant, have gone up against the greatest sinister force ever reckoned with since Hiranyakasipu. How could they have survived and undergone all persecution ,iniquity, and mockery, unless God was on their side?

I personally don’t think it is possible. That is what it ultimately boils down to, that is sole difference between you, and me. I have firm faith that Krsna is acting in their lives on a level that only those who give all love and devotion to the genuine dharma we have been given from Sri Krsna. The Lord comes to set the example to protect the cow and the bull, thus all anartha’s and pestilence in this world are immediately vanquished. Cow protection is what you lack. At the same time, you feed off everything Stephen Voith and Linda Voith have done.

This behavior is that of a leech sucking blood from its prey. Your opulence, false ego, society friendship and love, and ultimately, your envy… Sinks you into the ocean of material nescience like none other. Your unequivocal intelligent mind is thus poisoned and contaminated by all hellish material mayavadh nonsense. It is a pity that such a man of regard as yourself Rocana is struck with such a plight that will ultimately lead one to the darkest regions of this universe.

That which we call hell is simply an 8 ball stroke away for one who has attempted to take this sacred school of thought so methodically and “brahmically” as you yourself have done. You my friend, have not given credit where it’s due. You have spit on those who love Srila Prabhupada’ and embraced those whose only intention in life is to destroy any fragment of His beautiful legacy He has left for us on this planet so that the whole universe can benefit from His ocean of love, mercy, and compassion that which only the non envious, pious, and ultimately, those who feel for the suffering of others trapped in this material ocean of samsara can do.

Yet, my dear Rocana. You sir, have been one of the greatest boons for me that I have ever come into contact with in my short duration practicing Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. I am grateful.  Like Stephen Voith said while he was kicking on Ravindra Svarupa’s raksasic face “I love you, but you sir, are a snake so I can’t embrace you.” You have stretched my mind and understandings to a limit that which I never thought was cosmically possible. For that, I am grateful to be kicking on your demoniac face as I feel I have never done before and am elated to do so. Again I remain enthusiastic to our continued communications related to our living, loving spiritual father His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, our Spiritual Sun. And I hope someday, we can discuss the esoteric relationship between Srila Prabhupada and His most beloved, exalted disciple Bob Dylan, the Spiritual Moon for Lord Chaitanya’s Sankirtan party.

We are all invited, prabhu. You are too. I want you aboard. Thank you, prabhu. Hare Krishna.

Your servant,

Muktipada dasa

Muktipada, you obviously don't understand the message...  I suggest we
talk about this in person.  Give me your phone # and I'll call you
tomorrow.  Tell me when's a good time.

Rocana [2:12 AM October 5 2012]

youjustkickonhisface.net

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Re: Reply To: None Dare Call it a Yadu-Jew [cock]roach Sambradaya E...

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FROM:

• Nathan Zakheim

Srila Prabhupada is the FOUNDER ACHARYA OF ISKCON. (i.e. He Established Iskcon, and He set His personal example as to how to behave a a Devotee of Krishna).

SP's GBC "authorities" behaved in the only way Americans KNOW how to behave.....Brutally, and like Mafia Capos. They were tyrants with "visions of absolute authority" (Like what they imagined SP's "Authority" to be). Devotees recruited and managed by such "Absolute Tyrants" as Tamal TOOK FOR GRANTED THAT ISKCON WAS AN "AUTHORITY BASED" organization, not having the slightest clue as to what SP had established for the welfare of all.

SP wrote a Gurulie Handbook, and in it he showed sublime teachings and instructions for how to run the Gurukula. He gave wonderful instructions, and did not ever suggest that the men that he "initiated" should act otherwise.

He introduced the FOUR REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES, and left it up to US to obey them. No one can ENFORCE the Four Regulative Principles....it must be voluntary and born out of OBEDIENCE TO THE SPIRITUAL MASTER THAT ONE HAS "STATED" THAT HE WILL FOLLOW AND OBEY UP TO THE POINT OF DEATH!

SP did not OWN ISKCON, nor did He ever directly profit from Iskcon nor did He act as "supreme money controller, or Big Big "Authority" of ISKCON. "Founder Acharya" does not include any of the above.

SO DEVOTEES "SCREWED UP" BROKE THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES, DID NOT PRACTICE THE "FOUR LOVING EXCHANGES" AND THEN THESE SAME "ASSHOLES" DARE TO BLAME SP FOR THE CRIMES COMMITTED BY THEM AND THEM ALONE?

SP DID NOT NEED ISKCON!.....He was perfectly situated in Vrindaban, writing the Srimad Bhagavatam and the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, withing visual sighting of the Samadhi and Bhajan Kutir of Srila Roupa Goswami.

Did He come to America to become a "rich swami"?....to declare Himself "god"?

HE CREATED ISKCON INC NOT FOR HIMSELF....BUT AS A GIFT TO FIRST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THEN TO THE PEOPLE  OF THE WORLD.

He set  the perfect standard, and He practiced KC perfectly.....and He did so by EXAMPLE.

Because of the arrogance and tyranny of the GBC, EVERYONE THOUGHT THAT SP WAS NOT ONLY A TYRANT AS WELL, BUT A BIGGER AND MORE BRUTAL TYRANT THAN THE GBC, and other "puffed up" "leaders".

IN SHORT:

SP gave all of us the PERFECT GIFT....with PERFECT INSTRUCTIONS of how to Run and Manage this Gift.

How DARE any sinful man (sinful after taking Initiation Vows) BLAME HIS ACHARYA for HIS OWN ACTS OF DEPRAVITY?

A Man gives his 16 year old boy a brand new Porche...and the boy gets illegally drunk (at age 16) and runs the Porche into a tree, demolishing it, and injuring some of his passengers.

Then he goes to his father in a rage...."Dad, why did you give me such a "lousy car"?.....It is now smashed to pieces, and it is YOUR FAULT for not keeping the Porched in GOOD CONDITION AT ALL TIMES!

Does that make sense?

ISKCON ( in spite of popular misconception and perception) NEVER BELONGED TO SP!.....He created it for US and it belonged to us, and STILL belongs to us.

A child molester is BREAKING one (or more) of the Four Regulative Principles.....SP gave instructions on how to run the Gurukula, and the management DID NOT MONITOR the behavior of the Instructors closely enough TO PREVENT one or more of the Instructors to BREAK THE REGULATIVE PRINCIPLES.

It was NOT SP's "Duty" to send a child molester to Jail!....His Mercy is such that he could not send ANYONE to Jail, because He is KIND to any and all living entities.

WHAT FOOL TOOK A CHILD MOLESTER TO SP FOR JUDGEMENT?....(Such "Fool" ASSUMED that SP was a "tough guy" like Tamal).

The management of the Gurulula HAD A FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to the Parents of the abused child, and the Temple President where that child had lived, and to Srila Prabhupada TO CREATE A STANDARD BY WHICH CHILDREN COULD NOT BE ABUSED!

The GBC had FULL JURISDICTION over the Gurukulas , and were the ones to turn turn a child molester over to the police (or to beat him to death).

SO IT WAS THE "GBC" not SP who was actually to blame....(SP Created the GBC to relieve Him of material Management, in order for him to retire from "giving advice" to others.....He said that there was no need to approach Him with questions...."Everything I have said is in my books....and you will read and UTILIZE").

So, WHY DID THE GBC FAIL TO CONROL THE GURUKULA MANAGERS, AND FAIL TO DIRECTLY PROTECT THE CHILDREN FROM THE CHILD MOLESTERS?

IT IS BECAUSE THEY HAD REJECTED THE DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT, AND REFUSED TO ACCEPT THAT SP HAD ORDERED THEM TO BE ELECTED FOR THREE YEAR TERMS....ONLY!

If the GBC had been Elected by the Temple Presidents, THE GBC WOULD BE TRULY "BEHOLDEN" TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS WHO HAD ELECTED THEM. They would have actually REPRESENTED WHOLEHEARTEDLY the parents of the Children in the Gurukula, who they would NATURALLY have gone to any extreme to protect.

UNFORTUNATELY, The GBC declared themselves "PERMANENT ABSOLUTE AUTHORITIES"  totally AGAINST SP's Clear and unambiguous DIRECT ORDER VIA THE DOM.

So, they "CIRCLED THE WAGONS" and protected THEMSELVES, not the children from the parents, instead of protecting the Children against molesters in the Gurukulas!

HOW CAN ANYONE "BLAME" SP FOR SUCH DISOBEDIENCE BY THE GBC AND THE MANAGERS OF THE GURUKULA?

SP made EVERY EFFORT to add the DOM to the Constitutions of Iskcon, and the GBC refused to obey SP in that matter.

So, WHO IS TO BLAME?

We are ALL to blame, because we were so "awed" by the GBC and so eager to "CLIMB UP THE HIERARCHY" to become just like THEM, that we did not EVEN NOTICE that this was the OPPOSITE of what SP had taught Exaampled, ORDERED etc in or behalf and in the behalf of the gurukulies.

SP created and gifted us with a "heavenly plan". Unfortunately (due to the "free will" of each and every one of us) He could not prevent our gurukula teachers from "EATING THEIR YOUNG".

SP gave us all the means to overcome and transcend our BAD KARMA. Unfortunatly, we did not heed his advice, and in fact CHEATED HIM AND ONE ANOTHER ALL THE WAY DOWN.

How can SP be responsible for that?

He too, is "FLYING HIS OWN AIRPLANE", AND COULD ONLY TEACH BY EXAMPLE THOSE WHO AGREED TO FOLLOW HIS RULES.

Is there a "TRUTH" beyond that?

Did SP have a "responsibility" beyond that?

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Srimukunda, et al, with all due respect, the argument that Srila Prabhupada takes personal responsibility for all deviations is the same as blaming Krsna for all the suffering in material existence. One might say, yes, He is God, He is responsible, but in fact, we have our minor free will, so we sometimes act contrary to the will of God, and so there are nasty results. If Prabhupada erred, it was in underestimating the depravity of the sinful. Had we cooperated, he has laid out a perfect pathway back to Godhead.

You might as well argue, why didn't Srila Prabhupada come and chant our japa for us? No, he gave directions, he did everything possible to protect the devotees, but some chose to create havoc, as they still do today.

Ys
Tamohara d.

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Dear Tamohara prabhu, 

 

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my fallen obeisances.  I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.

I very much appreciated your reply here. We must have been thinking on a similar note, because after sending off my reply to Sri Mukunda, I'm now seeing your reply - which is SO SUCCINCT and DEFINITIVE!!!

As Srila Krsna das Kaviraj Goswami wrote, "Essential truth spoken concisely is true eloquence," and this is what you've done in this reply.

(It takes me so long, and so many words, to be able to try to "spit something out," but here you've said it SO SIMPLY AND CLEARLY!!!)

What gets me, is WHY, if someone accepted a name through ritvik initiation, if they aren't accepting Srila Prabhupada, would they be KEEPING their name?)

We can see that Kali is throwing so many punches, in so many directions...

I hope all is going well on your end, and again, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!! your reply.

May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

With love, 

 

Your servant, 

B. Radha-Govinda 

Hare Krsna

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Maybe Sri Mukunda, you might want to ask Krsna (or Lord Visnu) why He "allows" or "doesn't 'clean up'" the so many things that go on, (or maybe He's just not God - I mean come on, four or more hands, and so many snake heads of Sesa Naga, and, and and...,  and maybe God is just a sadist, or irresponsible, doesn't know what He's doing, or whatever...).

I wasn't there to be able to hear and pose question to Srila Prabhupada (if I was to have had any questions - in terms of hearing at that time what was being said by Srila Prabhupada).

My understanding of Srila Prabhupada, is very different from yours. So many questions can be asked in relation to Srila Prabhupada and the "whys," and so many "why" questions can be asked about Krsna and/or other pure devotees. Here are a few:

Why did Krsna allow for Putana to kill children before He killed her. (Or maybe, as some might be feeling, "Those stories are mythology"...)

Why did Ramacandra banish Sita Devi from the kingdom? (Again, some might be thinking this "to be 'mythology'.")

Why did Bhismadev (a Mahajana - though maybe we may also want to deny this as well), allow for what happened to Draupadi to happen? And why did he fight on the side of Duryodhana when he knew what (at least some of the) atrocities Duryodhana committed?

Do I "approve" of, "support," "condone" or "like" child molestation? NO!!!, nor do I believe that Srila Prabhupada did. Srimad Bhagavatam (1.14.41) explains that children, women, cows, brahmanas and old men are to be protected. Srila Prabhupada more than any of us knew this, and my understanding is that Srila Prabhupada WANTED!!! this, and wanted that the whole world (if possible) become Krsna conscious - what to speak of being given the opportunity.

IF we were to PROPERLY understand/have understood Srila Prabhupada's books, Krsna's desires, and what Srila Prabhupada meant by whatever Srila Prabhupada stated, we would NOT be in the MESS we are at present.

You can call me a "cult" follower (in my acceptance of Srila Prabhupada as Krsna's specifically selected Ambassador to this planet for spreading Krsna consciousness), but my faith in Srila Prabhupada is not based on a "cult" mentality.

Why one person loves (person) "X" while another person may even hate (person) "X" is based on so many varying factors. I certainly am not going to propound that I "know" the "whys" in regards to Srila Prabhupada. Though I can understand a few of the "whys" in regards to some conditioned people I know, but certainly can NOT understand/know the "whys" of other conditioned people, so how would I be able to "know the 'whys'" of such a person as Srila Prabhupada?

(It seems you feel you "know.") (Good luck...)

B. Radha Govinda (Swami)

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Dear Tamohara prabhu, 

 

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my fallen obeisances. I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.

 

I'm going down and replying your email in blue. In case you didn't get my other reply, to your WONDERFUL email reply sent in reply to Sri Mukunda, I'm putting it BELOW your email.

--- On Fri, 10/5/12, Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]> wrote:

From: Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: :)
To: "B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)" <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, October 5, 2012, 2:10 PM

Jaya!  B. Radha Govinda Swami ; AGTSP. Please accept my obeisances.

I am myself relocating to Hungary this summer 2013, and expect to see some pious persons there.

I have a strong feeling you will; definitely more so than here...

I am asking some devotees to take interest in an ashrama community there, and there is some light interest expressed.

Maybe more interest will be generated. You have certainly been able to accomplish so much through your SPI website. (By the way, have you heard ANYTHING from Basu Gopal prabhu? Although at one point "way back when," he was replying the emails which I wrote him, asking if he was alright, etc., but now I never receive anything in reply. Have you found out anything in regards to him?)

With or without any accomplices, Rasa and i can try to set an ideal example there on a small organic farm, and they will be welcomed to spend time with us as they like, there.

I hope that things will work out WONDERFULLY!!! for the both of you, and your desire for other devotees to come and be part of a devotee community, or at least for other devotees to be in nice association with the two of you for Krsna conscious association, will be fulfilled. We can see that example set by the devotees in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's time; their coming together to hear, chant, and glorify Krsna.

I hope to visit Russia, it is not far away!  That will surely be interesting. Perhaps I will be allowed to do sankirtana there for a week or three? That would be a great opportunity. Fortunately Hare Krishna is still Hare Krishna in Ruskie!

Yes, quite a while ago, a devotee named Jaya Madhava prabhu (initiated while Srila Prabhupada was still present on the planet), whose from the US, but has been living in Russia for the past however many years, was writing and telling me that things in Russia ISKCON (the mood) is similar to what it was in the ISKCON temples while Srila Prabhupada was still present on the planet.

Thanks for saying Hi to Mom, she is OK. She plans to relocate to a nice place near my brother, with a nice clean environment, nice grounds, high rise, lots of room, etc, so she is looking forward to that peaceful situation, yet convenient to stores etc.

This sounds good (for her), and I pray that she will be happy in her different situation. Since you told me, I've always been amazed at your mother's devotion, (and in your sending and my seeing Gopal's picture, it's made SO OBVIOUS that Gopal is VERY!!! HAPPY!!! in receiving Mother Kay's love/loving devotion to Him).

Yes, everything could have been quite different, but the enemy has attacked, and so there has been damages. No problemo, Krsna will even it all out over time.

Yes...

But yes, the current environment for new devotees could hardly be much worse! Perhaps the younger ones will be smarter? They are well trained in fighting and lying.

It certainly would have been MUCH NICER!!! if we ALL (younger and older devotees) had been getting nicely trained and had been nicely practicing Krsna consciousness.

I've included that previous email reply, below your signature.

Hoping this meets you well

And you too...

May we somehow, stay safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

With love, 

 

Your servant, 

B. Radha-Govinda 

Hare Krsna

Tamohara dasa

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP) <[e-mail]> wrote:

From: B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP) <[e-mail]>
Subject: :)
To: "Tamohara dasa vanaprastha" <[e-mail]>
Cc: "RG Swami" <[e-mail]>
Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 6:38 PM

Dear Tamohara prabhu, 

 

Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my fallen obeisances.  I hope your sadhana and bhajan are going well.

I very much appreciated your reply here. We must have been thinking on a similar note, because after sending off my reply to Sri Mukunda, I'm now seeing your reply - which is SO SUCCINCT and DEFINITIVE!!!

As Srila Krsna das Kaviraj Goswami wrote, "Essential truth spoken concisely is true eloquence," and this is what you've done in this reply.

(It takes me so long, and so many words, to be able to try to "spit something out," but here you've said it SO SIMPLY AND CLEARLY!!!)

What gets me, is WHY, if someone accepted a name through ritvik initiation, if they aren't accepting Srila Prabhupada, would they be KEEPING their name?)

We can see that Kali is throwing so many punches, in so many directions...

I hope all is going well on your end, and again, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!! your reply.

May we be safely situated under the shelter of Srila Prabhupada's Lotus Feet, Those of our Guru Varga, the Vaisnavas, and Sri Sri Radha and Krsna.

With love, 

 

Your servant, 

B. Radha-Govinda 

Hare Krsna

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]> wrote:
Date: Saturday, October 6, 2012, 5:38 PM

Srimukunda, et al, with all due respect, the argument that Srila Prabhupada takes personal responsibility for all deviations is the same as blaming Krsna for all the suffering in material existence. One might say, yes, He is God, He is responsible, but in fact, we have our minor free will, so we sometimes act contrary to the will of God, and so there are nasty results. If Prabhupada erred, it was in underestimating the depravity of the sinful. Had we cooperated, he has laid out a perfect pathway back to Godhead.

You might as well argue, why didn't Srila Prabhupada come and chant our japa for us? No, he gave directions, he did everything possible to protect the devotees, but some chose to create havoc, as they still do today.

Ys
Tamohara d

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

FROM:

• Tamohara dasa vanaprastha

TO:

• B. Radha-Govinda Swami (ACBSP)

Message flagged

Saturday, October 6, 2012 7:20:38 PM

Dear Mother; You are a stalwart of  Krsna Truth, and i am always learning bhakti at your feet. 

 

Thank you for praising our small effort SPI ! Yes, i swear we tried quite hard to do some good and keep it "pukka"-ish. This small matter has been a culmination of several years work, and I am so pleased that Krsna has used me as a tiny vehicle to encourage a few sincere devotees. This is one small ongoing attempt to serve the disciplic succession.  I know i can be a real hardcase pain in the butt, so sorry, perhaps Krsna will see fit to purify me in due course, but as I say, please accept this humble offering at the feet of the Godbrother Vaisnavas.

No one has heard from Basu, neither is he present at the places i would look for him. I am wondering if he hasnt left his body? His health was not very good, perhaps he did not let on fully how bad?

 

I have tried to be like your good self, B. Radha Govinda, Swami Ji; true to our spiritual master and to our cult come hell or high waters.

Obeisances and thanks.

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Hare Krsna again Tamohara prabhu,

All glories to His Divine Grace, Srila Prabhupada, and PAMFO.

I've just received and read these three replies from you.

Yes, we do think alike in regards to quite a number of things.

Sometimes when people write certain things, I just don't bother to argue with them, (and made a huge mistake in writing anything back to Sri Mukunda, even first thinking that I should not do so, then did, and sure enough...).

I've found - especially in regards to writing - that people will generally keep to what it is they're accepting, and in trying to address their points, it just ends up making things become more "unpleasant," and especially in relation to PURE devotees, more and more offensive when they're writing the things they do.

I'm just thankful to Srila Prabhupada, that despite all the craziness going on, Srila Prabhupada has allowed me to continue to have faith in Him. Kali is really throwing his punches, and it seems the tests of faith may end up becoming even a lot more difficult, some of us possibly having to go to a pretty heavy death (getting tortured beforehand) because of keeping the faith.

Seeing how my life has been in this body, I'm often thinking that I might have to be put through such tests, (and I'm certainly not "happy" about it, though I believe Srila Prabhupada will help me to pass the tests. Sometimes I think that maybe Krsna is trying to "train me up," so that when the time comes, instead of being a "quiet coward," I will yell back at the demons with heavy words). I would certainly prefer to leave this body under peaceful circumstances..., but that certainly doesn't mean that we're going to, simply because we want to.

I was told while Srila Prabhupada was present on the planet, that Srila Prabhupada told the devotees, "Don't be surprised at the ones who leave, but at those who stay." I pray that Srila Prabhupada will keep us both spiritually protected so that we WILL stay situated at His Divine Lotus Feet.

You please be well.

With love,

Your servant,

B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna


--- On Sat, 10/6/12, Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]> wrote:

Dearest B; Thanks, Swamiji! You're my number one uplink, mataji, and the encouragement is meaninglful to me. Hare Krsna.

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]> wrote:

Yes, just read your reply. Apparently, we think alike in this matter. That is good, i am less likely to be crazy, then! ~(>,' )

--- On Sat, 10/6/12, Tamohara dasa vanaprastha <[e-mail]> wrote:

i mean to say, two or three brahmans agreeing is a good sign that it is correct.

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Sri Mukunda cricticizes Srila Prabhupada for Early Vedic marriage BUT FAILS to grasp the Vedic Marriage system:

 

she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

 

770227rc.may                                         Conversations

Prabhupada: Yes. Generally a girl attains puberty at fourteen years, thirteen years. In India because it is tropical climate... I think in Western countries they attain puberty not before fifteen, sixteen years. So although a girl is married before puberty, she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

+++++++++

Formerly, in our days, younger days, although the girl was married at an early age, she was not allowed to see her husband unless she is grown-up fully. Unless she has attained puberty, she is not... She lives with her parents.

730513SB.LA                  Lectures

   But now things have changed. Nobody cares whether the daughter is married or not. But that is not good. Another difficulty is that everywhere, all over the world, the female population is greater than, on the average, than male population. So if each and every woman has to be married, then there is no sufficient number of male population. Therefore, according to Vedic rituals, those who are higher caste, just like the ksatriyas or the brahmanas, especially, others also, polygamy is allowed. Polygamy is allowed. Just like our most exalted personality, Krsna, He has married sixteen thousand wives. He is God. (laughter) Unless you have got so many wives, how you can be God? Not that sixteen thousand wives, one wife is to be seen one day, so that the turn will come after sixteen thousand days. No. That is God. He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms also, so that every wife was happy to live with the husband. And for Krsna, why sixteen thousand? If He marries sixteen millions, still, it is not sufficient. Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati: "The Supreme Lord is situated in the heart of all living entities." So all living entities, if Krsna can expand Himself to live in the heart of all living entities, and from the heart He comes out to become some woman's husband, is it very difficult for Krsna? That is not difficult.   Anyway, the point is that Maharaja Yudhisthira, he, how responsible king, just think over. Arjuna was also thinking before fighting. He was arguing with Krsna that "If I kill my brothers, all the my sister-in-laws, they'll be widow." And there was no such thing as widow-marriage in India. No. No widow can marry. Why? Because the woman population is greater than the man. If widow again marries, then the unmarried girl does not get chance to have another husband. Therefore there was no widow-marriage. Widow-marriage was especially allowed only when the girl did not see her husband at any time or she had no children. Formerly, in our days, younger days, although the girl was married at an early age, she was not allowed to see her husband unless she is grown-up fully. Unless she has attained puberty, she is not... She lives with her parents. But she knows that "I have got my husband." This consciousness is a great pleasure for a women psychologically, that "I have got husband." A very nice system. And when the girl grows up, puberty, then again another ceremony is taken. That is almost like second marriage. The girl goes to her husband, to live with her husband. This was the system.   So women were taken so much care by the Vedic civilization. Still they are taken. It is the duty of the father... Until she is married, it is the duty of the father to give her all protection. Therefore the father wants to get her married, to get relief from the responsibility. He has a great responsibility. It is called kanya-daya. Actually the word is called kanya-daya. Putra-rna. Rna means debt. If you are debtor to somebody you may not pay it, saying, "Sir, I have no money. Whatever you like, you can do." But daya means a great burden. It must be get relieved of. Daya means a great responsibility. Daya. Daya-bhak. Just like a son inherits the property of the father... It is called daya-bhak, law. Similarly, this is the, I mean to say, most obligatory duty of the father, to get the daughter married. And then it is the duty of the husband next. Just like we get... When we perform marriage ceremony in our society, we get the husband promise that he takes charge of the girl for life. And the girl agrees to serve the boy for life. There is no question of divorce.  So the father hands over the charge to a nice boy. Never mind he is rich or no. That doesn't matter. He must be a responsible boy, who knows his responsibility. Not that "Today I marry, and tomorrow I go away. That's all." Not like that. Still you will find in India, even the poorest man, living with husband and wife very happily. Still you will find. I have seen (in) Ahmedabad. One day I saw in the street one husband and wife pulling on a thela, hand-cart, with great load, and the small child is on the load. That means their child. They are laborer class. But ordinary laborer class, poor man, but they are living husband and wife and children happily. Still.  So marriage is very compulsory in Vedic system because who is to take charge of the woman? They require protection. The father must take charge naturally, or the husband. And when she is old... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu was taking charge of His widow mother. So when He took sannyasa, so mother became very much upset: "Oh, that I have no husband, and this boy is going to take sannyasa." Naturally. But that is a different case. For Krsna's sake, we can forsake our obligatory duties. For Krsna's sake. In the sastra it is said that one who has fully surrendered to Krsna, he has no more any material duty. Neither he has got any obligation that he must perform. But so long he is not fully surrendered to Krsna, he has to execute each and every duty as obligatory.