For a neophyte especially, considering a pure devotee from a material point of view is very injurious

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

The acarya is not to be seen as an ordinary man

Compiled by Isana dasa

 

·         For a neophyte especially, considering a pure devotee from a material point of view is very injurious. One should try to see the internal features and understand how he is engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord

This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a transcendental science, and there is no room for jealousy.  As soon as one becomes envious, he falls from the platform of paramahaṁsa. If we consider the bodily defects of a Vaiṣṇava, we should understand that we are committing an offense at the lotus feet of the Vaiṣṇava, which is very serious.  For a neophyte especially, considering a pure devotee from a material point of view is very injurious. One should try to see the internal features and understand how he is engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. Those who think that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is limited to a certain section of people or devotees are generally prone to see the external features of the devotee. It is also an offense to consider the empowered Vaiṣṇava an object of disciplinary action.  It is offensive to give him advice or try to correct him."    - Nectar of Instruction

NOTE:  offense to try to correct him, such as changing his books against his definitive instructions not to.

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·         Although the nitya-siddhas appear in the material world and seem to be common members of the world, they never forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead in any condition. This is the symptom of a nitya-siddha.

 

…There are many devotees who are eternal servants of the Lord. They are specifically known as nitya-siddha, eternally perfect. Although the nitya-siddhas appear in the material world and seem to be common members of the world, they never forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead in any condition. This is the symptom of a nitya-siddha.

There are two kinds of living entities-nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha. The nitya-siddha never forgets his relationship with the Supreme Personality, whereas the nitya-baddha is always conditioned, even before the creation. He always forgets his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Here the Lord informs the two brāhmaṇas that they are His servants birth after birth. The phrase birth after birth refers to the material world because in the spiritual world there is no birth, death, old age or disease. By the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the nitya-siddha remains within this material world like an ordinary man, but the only business of the nitya-siddha is to broadcast the glories of the Lord. ………..All nitya-siddhas within this material world may appear to toil like ordinary men, but they never forget their position as servants of the Lord.

………….We have to accept the fact that the nitya-siddhas are completely distinct from the nitya-baddhas, who are ordinary human beings. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirms this statement:

gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe, nitya-siddha kari' māne,…….. One who accepts the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu as nitya-siddhas is certain to be elevated to the spiritual kingdom to become an associate of the Supreme Lord……… CC ML  5.113 PURPORT EXCERPT

 

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·         One who is nitya-siddha has no business other than broadcasting the glories of the Lord all over the world according to his ability. Such people are already associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu

A devotee is always thinking of how better to serve Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and how to broadcast His name, fame and qualities throughout the world. One who is nitya-siddha has no business other than broadcasting the glories of the Lord all over the world according to his ability. Such people are already associates of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, nitya-siddha kari' māne. One should not think that because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was personally present five hundred years ago, only His associates were liberated. Rather, Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that anyone is a nitya-siddha if he acts on behalf of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu by spreading the glories of the holy name of the Lord. We should respect those devotees preaching the glories of the Lord as nitya-siddha and should not consider them conditioned.  https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/11/89

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·         One who executes Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission must be considered to be eternally liberated.

One who executes Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission must be considered to be eternally liberated. He is a transcendental person and does not belong to this material world. Such a devotee engaging in the deliverance of the total population is as magnanimous as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself. Such a personality factually represents Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu because his heart is always filled with compassion for conditioned souls.https://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/madhya/15/163

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·         And nitya-siddhas, they belong to the spiritual world. They never come in contact with this material world, and even they come for some business under the order of the Supreme Lord, they do not touch these material qualities.

·          They remain always transcendental.

Try to understand. There are two kinds of living entities: nitya-siddha, nitya-baddha. Nitya-baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahmā down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddhas. Anyone who is in this material world—nitya-baddha. And nitya-siddhas, they belong to the spiritual world. They never come in contact with this material world, and even they come for some business under the order of the Supreme Lord, they do not touch these material qualities They remain always transcendental. As Kṛṣṇa remains always transcendental, even though He is in this material world, similarly, Kṛṣṇa's nitya-siddha associates, they are also transcendental. They never touch this material world. https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/1/13-14/london/july/14/1973

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Just like Advaita Prabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu helped, similarly, anyone, even up to date, who is trying to help the propagation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, preach this saṅkīrtana movement all over the world, he is also associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe nitya siddha boli māne. They are not ordinary human being. Nitya siddha, ever liberated. https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/1/7/honolulu/june/15/1975

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·         Anyone, even up to date, who is trying to help the propagation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, preach this saṅkīrtana movement all over the world, he is also associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu

·         Simply you join the saṅkīrtana movement, and ecstasy you dance, take prasādam. By this process you are guaranteed; you will never go to the hellish planet.

Just like Advaita Prabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu helped, similarly, anyone, even up to date, who is trying to help the propagation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, preach this saṅkīrtana movement all over the world, he is also associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Gaurāṅgera saṅgi-gaṇe nitya siddha boli māne. They are not ordinary human being. Nitya siddha, ever liberated.

So, if we follow this leadership and if we act very nicely, very easily... Sukham. There is one verse in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, rāja-guhyaṁ pavitram idam uttamam, kartum avyayam. To perform this activity, it doesn't require much energy, much austerity. Simply you join the saṅkīrtana movement, and ecstasy you dance, take prasādam. By this process you are guaranteed; you will never go to the hellish planet. So, this saṅkīrtana movement is so nice. Anyway, don't disbelieve. It is in the śāstra. So, there are hellish planet, hellish birth, 8,400,000 species of birth. So, we have to take information from the śāstra. Don't be foolish. You create your mental concoction. No, that will not help you, because you are not free. Nobody is free. Everyone is under the grip of material laws. https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/1/7/honolulu/june/15/1975

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So, Prahlāda Mahārāja, mahā-bhāgavata, uttama-adhikārī. There are three stages of devotional platform. First stage is called kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, second stage is called madhyama-adhikārī, and third stage, or topmost stage, is called uttama-adhikārī. So, he was only five years old, how he became uttama-adhikārī, on the topmost stage? He had no training. Still, he is addressed here by Narada Muni—Narada Muni was his guru—and still, he is describing Prahlāda Mahārāja as mahā-bhāgavata. That means even one is mahā-bhāgavata, he has to accept a guru. Narada Muni, his guru, he knows that "Prahlāda is my disciple, but he is mahā-bhāgavata." Not only that, before his birth, when he was within the womb of his mother... DSCN0612.JPG

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·         Eternally mahā-bhāgavata never forgets Kṛṣṇa, in any circumstance. That is the sign of mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many trials when he was only a child, still he never forgot Kṛṣṇa

·         So one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down.

So, in the beginning (Prahlada Maharaja) he was mahā-bhāgavata, since he was in within the womb of his mother. And later on, he is mahā-bhāgavata. This is called nitya-siddha, eternally mahā-bhāgavata. Eternally mahā-bhāgavata never forgets Kṛṣṇa, in any circumstance. That is the sign of mahā-bhāgavata, nitya-siddha. Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many trials when he was only a child, still he never forgot Kṛṣṇa. That is the sign of mahā-bhāgavata. In any circumstances.

If one can understand nitya-siddha bhāgavata, then he immediately becomes eligible to go back to home, to back to godhead. This is the privilege of associating with mahā-bhāgavata. So, our system is, (child crying—aside:) try and maintain (?). Evaṁ paramparā, to associate with the mahā-bhāgavata by words or by physical exposition (?)……….

So Prahlāda Mahārāja he is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha means there are living entities, every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so one who does not fall down, he is called nitya-siddha. One who does not fall down. Just like in this material world there are millions and millions of living entities, but they have fallen down. But there are multi-millions and millions of living entities in the vaikuṇṭha-loka, they never fall down. They are called nitya-siddha. …………..

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/7/9/4/mayapur/february/11/1976

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·         In spite of these instructions, if one considers the spiritual master an ordinary human being, one is doomed

“One should consider the Acharya to be as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In spite of these instructions, if one considers the spiritual master an ordinary human being, one is doomed. His study of the Vedas and his austerities and penances for enlightenment are useless, like the bathing of an elephant.” (SB. 7.15.26, Purport)

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·         So, although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living

"This body is perishable." Nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: "But the proprietor of the body, that is eternal." vapu means the physical body, and vāṇī means the vibration. So, we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are ācāryas, their body is not considered as material. Arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir. Guruṣu means those who are ācāryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the śāstras. So, although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living. - Lecture Excerpt -- Los Angeles, January 13, 1969

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·         If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken

Disciple(1): …Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he’s illusioned, he’s a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead.

Prabhupāda:  …………….. If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken. (laughter)

(Morning Walk — March 16, 1976, Mayapura)

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SB 10.8.51 purport excerpt

…..Sometimes we may superficially see that a devotee is in difficulty because of being engaged in devotional service, but the fact is different. When a devotee suffers for Kṛṣṇa, that suffering is transcendental enjoyment. Unless one becomes a devotee, this cannot be understood………..

SB 10.8.51 purport excerpt

 

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

A very nice series of transcendental pastimes, thank you, hoping all are well and enjoying devotional service.

Hare Krsna, pamho

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Narasimha Parvat <[e-mail]>

To:Tamoharadasa

Cc:Laksman Dion,Joseph Langevin,Peter Levine,damaghosa dasa,Yasoda Nandana Prabhu

Tue., Feb. 23 at 6:53 p.m.

Hare Krishna Prabhus,

Dandavats. Jai Srila Prabhupada. 

Excellent references and points. Nice transcendental discussion. 

It is hard for conditioned souls to understand how the apparent troubles, disease, torture and sufferings of mahabhagavatas are actually an impetus for their ever- increasing transcendental bliss. It is beyond logic and ordinary rationale. 

ys Narasimha das

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

There is a tendency to think in terms of duality, accepting and rejecting. But the devotee tolerates, as his motivation is not material pleasures or pain avoidance. 

The material universe is a perspective, as actually we are eternal. and this world is also an aspect of that Eternal Personality. For Krsna, there is no material universe, and for His perfect devotees, also the eternal realm is omnipresent. Nonetheless, the temporary worlds have aspects not experienced in the Goloka-type realms, such as fighting demons to the death etc. To come and preach here in a stool body to suffering fallen souls, is a great credit to the preachers. 

Ishan Prabhu, the saintly brahmana and devotee,  pamho old friend from FB, who rightfully points out the Absolute Transcendance of the perfected servants, their freedom from mundane control of maya.  I beg to point out that this imperfect world is also perfect in its purposes and nature, not to be denied as real for those sojourneying here, but understood rightly and dealt with here and now. Otherwise, why the need for Gita instruction to tolerate the happinesses and stresses, as obviously they continue yet the sober sage is undisturbed ? A question of perspective and emphasis, I do not think there is any great contradiction. These things con tinue, devotee is not so disturbed by mundane things. 

Narasimha Prabhu kindly points out that the motivation for pure devotees is spiritual; i add;  their work is a love reciprocation with their Lord, to do Their service, such a wonderful and dire service, to deliver fallen souls. Conditioned souls cannot really grasp, as it is a question of love, therefore a personal matter, perhaps not within their immediate understanding. I beg to follow such understandings. 

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 12:07 PM Tamoharadasa <[e-mail]> wrote:

A very nice series of transcendental pastimes, thank you, hoping all are well and enjoying devotional service. Just to add or expand or another angle; 

Although it is true that the pure devotee is not of the material control nor design, yet it is a bit of slight  impersonalism to think that the spiritual master cannot be inconvenienced or made to suffer physically. He endures, the material world does not just disappear like magic, though Krsna can will to assist, and help relieve any sufferings due to the body of that devotee, if He wishes, of course.  

Mahaprabhu took the whipping intended for Haridasa by the muslim, yet Haridasa also felt himself too old to finish his rounds at one point, showing how he suffered frailty of physical body and consequent disturbance to his services.  Jiva Goswami was prepared to jump off Govardhana Hill. Srila Bhaktivinoda walled himself inside a samadhi to escape the endless offenses of the pseudo-vaisnavas. Mother Queen Kunti asked to again bear so many pains as it helped her in her pure remembrance and taking shelter of Krsna. Srila Krsna dasa Kaviraja left his Bengal due to offenses that he could not bear, etc. So there are many cases on and on of devotees suffering in the material universe due to the demonic goings on. Just as they enjoy some nice prasadam or a walk or even a massage, so they suffer from excess heat or poison or neglect by loved ones. Sometimes they cry to see the endless maya and suffering, and so they suffer to see others suffering. 

Only a naive person tries to say they are transcendental, therefore pure devotees  do not suffer anything, or may be said by someone trying to establish the glories of pure devotion but not understanding the position well or emphasizing the transcendental aspects. The perfect devotees remain unaffected, all iw within Krsna context in thought word and deed, andso always do their eternal services, but the body can be killed or diseased or punished by demons, as we see over and over in devotee histories.  Many great devotees called upon Krsna to save them from suffering conditions, including even the residents of Vrndavana. They may ultimately indeed be beyond the limited body, cannot be touched unless Godhead wills it,  but their service can take them into places where they endure deprivations for the sake of service. One can rightfully say that even these pains are a source of spiritual pleasure ultimately. "do not torture me and put to death..." "Better to be killed by Rama than by Ravana.." Some, due to seperation, fasted to death, or died seeming of great disease. That is not material, yet the temporary body expired.

Hare Krsna, pamho. 

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 03:05:33 p.m. CST, Joseph Langevin <[e-mail]> wrote:

[Tamohara dasa ADMIN.]

Hare Krishna Tamoharadas Prabhu,

Obeisances.  All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I do not know exactly your reason for stating that my evaluation of Srila Prabhupada's position is tainted with impersonalism.  Suffice it to say that I have only forwarded a series of quotes,( i.e., the explicit words of Srila Prabhupada as obtained from his books) to Yasodanandana Prabhu, who has in turn supplied the headings that precede each quote, before forwarding to you.  Therefore I am thinking that your objections or advice in this connection should be forwarded to Yasoda.

Regarding your metaphysical appreciation of the position of the pure devotee who descends into the material realm for our benefit, I believe you are to some degree seeing Srila Prabhupada as an ordinary man.  Your evaluation of the statements and actions of the pure devotees in our literature, are your personal purports and not those given by Srila Prabhupada.  So much if not all of those pastimes and the activities and statements and devotional feelings of those personalities is for providing lessons and guidance for all of us as we are progressing gradually in our Krishna consciousness.  

Suffice it to say that Srila Prabhupada has written in his commentary to Tenth canto SB that the spiritual master is so powerful that the eight-fold mystic powers are simply insignificant compared to the power of the pure devotee and that we simply cannot begin to understand his powers.  No.  The pure devotee does not suffer.  His body is 100 % spiritual, as much as Krishna's body is 100 % spiritual.  He can relieve us of our karma, even he can relieve the whole universe of souls of their karma, and still he can go forward to preach and save the conditioned souls.  His consciousness is never disturbed like a conditioned soul.  This is your misunderstanding.  He does not have to take planes to travel.   He does not have to eat or drink.  He is not subject to hunger and thirst. He is not disturbed by heat and cold. He plays the part of a madhyam adhikary 2nd class devotee.  But he is a first class, shakti avesha avatara. All of these statements can be backed up by our shastras as received from Srila Prabhupada.  

We have to begin to relate from the heart, with Srila Prabhupada, just as we would relate to Krishna, as inconceivably in one place and simultaneously all pervasive, the external manifestation of the Lord in the heart, the all-pervasive Supersoul.  Then we can begin to offer our prayers to him, understand that he can reciprocate with us, try to please him with our every thought word and deed, and understand that he can provide us with knowledge, remembrance and forgetfulness, and that our advancement in devotional service is directly under his personal jurisdiction.  He is aware of our degree of sincerity or lack thereof. We cannot begin to understand him with our mundane minds, conditioned by the three modes of material nature.   

I want to say , "Your servant", and I am trying to take that position, but your evaluation of our spiritual master I find to be lacking.  

Hare Krshna!  

Ishan das