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Discussion with Krpamaya Prabhu, GBC England

Yes,Haribol, Krpamoya Prabhu; Pamho. AGTSP. T; As you say, prabhu, it is not good that we too few devotees should be fighting . There is so much important work to be done. We must be mutually respectful. Still, a very great issue is there. > K; > I didn't know that HH Puri Goswami Maharaja had left > behind a ritvik system. How will that work, exactly? T; This info I have gotten second-hand from more than one source. Are you aware of the conversation between SP and PM in '77, in which PM says to SP; they will never accept it (referring to the rtivik arrangements left for us.) SP said; that it is up to Krsna! Now PM has shown what he thinks is Krsna's order! Mind you, it is not to PM that we must look, only to SP. He is quoted below and the message seems clear to me. > >K; I wrote on my website about my understanding of how the > Ramanuja followers do their diksha. Strangely enough, its > not quite ritvik, yet not quite how many in ISKCON currently > understand diksha. Personally, I t
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Hybrid

Our vision is of eternal blissful devotee-filled cultural centers, temples of Srila Prabhupada, filled with his loving disciples. Those who want to leave this safe and blissful shelter, and are fully qualified and ordered by Krsna, let them leave the father temple and start new ones of their own in succession, like apples falling from the tree. But there should always be the faithful preaching servants and disciples of Srila Prabhupada, in the very temples which he built for this very purpose. If we follow Srila Prabhupada's instructions, there will always be his disciples, otherwise, how can he have ordered that only HIS DISCIPLES are to be the temple presidents and board members in all his temples, in perpetuity ? Isn't this also what PRABHUPADA HIMSELF ACTUALLY DID? He left Gaudiya Maths! He never tried to "take control of" his Godbrothers, residents etc or any assets in Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's temples for his own purposes or disciples etc.! Others did. The current "others" in our
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"The love in my heart, the stone in my hand."

"Ain't got no pistols, ain't got no sword or marching band, all I've got is the love thats in my heart, and the stone that's in my hand." Everlast. How can you know, you who sit in lotus towers? You cannot see, are deaf! Your comfortable life blinds you to the myriad sufferings, daily, on and on. You hear only what you want to believe! But the people are hungry, their skins are sallow and their brains dull from their stomach's emptiness! They have no hope and no futures! They die alone, they suffer together. They fumblingly press in the needle of sweet oblivious escape. They are kept blind and uneducated, a life hardly worth living in the ghettos and enclaves, created and pinned there by your greedy designs and rascism. They are abused and assaulted by you, the fat-cat elite; you such proper politicians and bankers, you who calculatingly maintain mercenary troops to enforce total control over every man's thoughts and resources, who keep the world enslaved in depraved self-righteous p
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Srimati Sita Thakurani Appearance

Sita Thakuranihttp://gaudiyahistory.iskcondesiretree.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Sita-Thakurani-2-208x300.jpg 208w" sizes="(max-width: 311px) 100vw, 311px" />

According to Gaura-Ganodesha-Dipika, Shri Sita Thakurani is Yogamaya. The Gaura-Parshada-Charitvali says that in Krishna Lila, she was Purnamasi, the mother of Sandipani Muni, grandmother of Madhumangal and Nandimukhi and a disciple of Narada Muni. (Gaura-Ganodesha-Dipika, however, says that Paurnamasi in Krishna-lila became Shri Govinda Acharya in Chaitanya lila.) (In the image: Deity of Shrimati Purnamasi, Shri Vrindavan Dham).

    Advaita Acharya’s wife was a respectable and noble woman name Sita Thakurani. Taking permission from her husband, she went to Navadwip bearing gifts to see the crown jewel of infants. (Chaitanya Charitamrita 1.13.112)
 
   Shri Sita Thakurani is to be worshiped just as much as Sachi Devi herself, as the mother of the universe. She is the eternal wife of Shri Advaita Acharya. She was the daughter of Shri Nrishinga Ba
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Kali Yuga, no surprises

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Vishvambhara Priya courtesy;


Kali Yuga, no surprises

15) Only at the time of Sri Gurudeva's disappearance can one recognise the actual identity of his disciples. One can then understand who has approached Sri Guru with what intention.

(16) Even after taking shelter of a sad-guru's lotus feet, some disciples secretly strive to occupy the seat of Sri Gurudeva at the time of his disappearance. Their acceptance of the shelter of Sri Guru's feet was merely deceit. They are, in fact, hostile and inimical to guru.

(17) Moreover, some disciples try to misappropriate the opulence and paraphernalia intended for the service of Sri Guru-Gauranga. This is not understood while Sri Gurudeva is still present, but after he has disappeared from this world, it assumes a terrible form. Know these disciples to be hypocrites, enjoyers and offenders.

(18) Even at the time of Sri Gurudeva's manifest presence, some try to control their godbrothers instead of regarding them as worshipable. Thus they become

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Final Order pt 5

Other Related Objections 1) "Srila Prabhupada has not mentioned the use of ritviks in his books." 1) The word "ritvik" (meaning "priest") and its derivatives actually have 31 separate references in Srila Prabhupada's books, only slightly less than the word "diksa" and its derivatives, which has 41 separate references in Srila Prabhupada books. Certainly, the use of ritvik priests to assist in ceremonies is a concept fully sanctioned in Srila Prabhupada's books: Ritvik : 4.6.1 / 4.7.16 / 5.3.2 / 5.3.3 / 5.4.17 / 7.3.30 / 8.20.22 / 9.1.15 . Rtvijah : 4.5.7 / 4.5.18 / 4.7.27 / 4.7.45 / 4.13.26 / 4.19.27 / 4.19.29 / 5.3.4 / 5.3.15 / 5.3.18 / 5.7.5 / 8.16.53 / 8.18.21 /8.18.22 / 9.4.23 / 9.6.35 Rtvijam : 4.6.52 / 4.21.5 / 8.23.13 / 9.13.1 . Rtvigbhyah : 8.16.55 . Rtvigbhih : 4.7.56 / 9.13.3 . (all these references are from the Srimad-Bhagavatam) 2) Although spiritual principles were covered extensively by Srila Prabhupada in his books, the specifics concerning those principles would o
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Final Order pt 4

13) "If we adopted the ritvik system, what would stop us taking initiation from any previous acarya, such as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta?" Two things prevent this from being a bona fide option: Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and other previous acaryas, did not authorise a ritvik system to run "henceforward". We must approach the current link: "...in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhagavatam one should approach the current link, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession." (S.B. 2.9.7, purport) It is self-evident that Srila Prabhupada is the sampradaya acarya who succeeded Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Srila Prabhupada is therefore our current link, and is thus the correct person to approach for initiation. 14)"In order to be the current link you must be physically present." Srila Prabhupada never states the above injunction. So let us consider: Can a spiritual master be "current" if he is physically absent? The term "current link" is only used in one passage in all of Sri
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Final Order pt 3

Other Related Objections 1) "Srila Prabhupada has not mentioned the use of ritviks in his books." 1) The word "ritvik" (meaning "priest") and its derivatives actually have 31 separate references in Srila Prabhupada's books, only slightly less than the word "diksa" and its derivatives, which has 41 separate references in Srila Prabhupada books. Certainly, the use of ritvik priests to assist in ceremonies is a concept fully sanctioned in Srila Prabhupada's books: Ritvik : 4.6.1 / 4.7.16 / 5.3.2 / 5.3.3 / 5.4.17 / 7.3.30 / 8.20.22 / 9.1.15 . Rtvijah : 4.5.7 / 4.5.18 / 4.7.27 / 4.7.45 / 4.13.26 / 4.19.27 / 4.19.29 / 5.3.4 / 5.3.15 / 5.3.18 / 5.7.5 / 8.16.53 / 8.18.21 /8.18.22 / 9.4.23 / 9.6.35 Rtvijam : 4.6.52 / 4.21.5 / 8.23.13 / 9.13.1 . Rtvigbhyah : 8.16.55 . Rtvigbhih : 4.7.56 / 9.13.3 . (all these references are from the Srimad-Bhagavatam) 2) Although spiritual principles were covered extensively by Srila Prabhupada in his books, the specifics concerning those principles would o
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Final Order pt 2

Evidence used to support an alternative to the ritvik system falls into three basic categories : Srila Prabhupada's frequent call for everyone to become guru, often made in conjunction with the "amara ajnaya guru hana" verse from the Caitanya-Caritamrta. The half dozen or so personal letters where Srila Prabhupada mentions his disciples acting as diksa guru after his departure. Other statements in Srila Prabhupada's books and lectures where the principle of disciples going on to be diksa guru are mentioned. Looking first at category 1): The instruction for everyone to become guru is found in the following verse in the Caitanya-Caritamrta, which was often quoted by Srila Prabhupada: "Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Sri Krishna as they are given in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land." (C.c. Madhya, 7.128) However, the type of guru, which Lord Caitanya is encouraging everyone to become, is c
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Final Order pt 1 Krsna Kanta Prabhu et al

ISKCON Revival Movement THE FINAL ORDER Proves Srila Prabhupada Is ISKCON's Initiating Guru By: Krishnakant Foreword by Dr. Kim Knott Professor of Religous Studies, Leeds University, U.K. Originally requested for submission to a select committee of ISKCON's GBC in October 1996 Contents • Foreword by Dr. Kim Knott • Preface • Introduction • The Evidence • Objections Relating Directly to the Form and Circumstances of the Order • The "Appointment Tape" • Other Related Objections • Conclusion • What is a ritvik? • Relevant Quotes from Srila Prabhupada's Teachings: • Does the Guru need to be physically present? • Follow the Instruction not the body • The Books are enough • Srila Prabhupada is our Eternal Guru Appendices: • July 9th, 1977 Letter "To All GBC, and Temple Presidents" • July 10th, 1977 Letter • July 11th, 1977 Letter • July 21st, 1977 Letter • July 31st, 1977 Letter • Srila Prabhupada’s Declaration of Will (4th June, 1977) & • Codicil (5th November, 1977) • Room conver
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